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The long-term cost of sexual harassment

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41–50 of 81 posts

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#41
This is really outrageous. These two people had zero business relationship, and no one is alleging that any laws were violated, or even that there are any torts. As far as anyone can tell from the article, he has had no opportunity to refute any of this.

The worst accusation is that he put his hand on the ass of a married woman. Now, should have done that? No. That wasn't a nice thing to do. He had a few drinks and got a bit too bold. If true, does he deserve to be trash talked at brunch with the girls? Sure. It's certainly something that he should reflect on and be more cautious next time. Should we take seriously the claims of "PTSD-like" symptoms based on having a man touch her ass and then do nothing when she got in a cab and drove away? Well, are women adults? One hundred fifty years ago, the thinking was that women were too emotional to make adult decisions, and so they shouldn't be entrusted to do things like own property or vote. Over the years, we've come to agree that women and men are equal. I personally think that this is a good thing, but the power of adulthood and citizenship comes with responsibility. Catherine Shu is asking for sympathy and vengeance as if she were a child. Obviously, if some random venture capitalist woman were to grab a journalist man's ass after a couple of drinks, there would definitely not be a TechCrunch article about it.

If women are children, we certainly should not entrust them with positions of responsibility in corporations, and I would not hire a child at an equivalent level of pay to an adult for an engineering role.

So, it's really women's choice. Do you want the power and benefits of being an adult, or do you want the protection and coddling of a child? Personally, I'm OK with either, but we need to get this straight before we hire a bunch of children to do important work.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#42

This is really outrageous. These two people had zero business relationship, and no one is alleging that any laws were violated, or even that there are any torts. As far as anyone can tell from the article, he has had no opportunity to refute any of this. The worst accusation is that he put his hand on the ass of a married woman. Now, should have done that? No. That wasn't a nice thing to do. He had a few drinks and g…

[deleted]

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#43

This is really outrageous. These two people had zero business relationship, and no one is alleging that any laws were violated, or even that there are any torts. As far as anyone can tell from the article, he has had no opportunity to refute any of this. The worst accusation is that he put his hand on the ass of a married woman. Now, should have done that? No. That wasn't a nice thing to do. He had a few drinks and g…

[deleted]

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#44
post #25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't get to set the bar for her. Words have meanings, just because someone interprets them in their own way, doesn't mean they can claim X when it's not considered warranted. So regardless of this particular case, we can, and do, society collectively does set the bar for what can be considered X or Y -- and someone can argue based on that. (That said, grabbing her hand and not letting go despite attempts to fr…

Not for medical issues. You, or I, or anyone else on here doesn't get to say she doesn't have PTSD. That's up to a doctor.

If I'm allowed to be pedantic, and going beyond the story under discussion, people can (and should be allowed to) disagree even for medical issues. It's not just blind trust to whatever diagnoses doctors do. Talking of course here for "soft" diagnoses -- few would disagree with an actual physiological diagnosis of a medical problem.

Until a few decades ago, homosexuality was a disease that was OK to be cured with things like electroshock treatment. Heck, people had lobotomies inflicted upon them, in the 20th century, for all kinds of BS reasons. Here on HN too, many will attack the prevalent over-prescription of drugs and diagnoses of ADHD to children.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#45
post #16

"He put his arm around my shoulders and whispered “Can’t you pretend you’re single?” in my ear. I shrugged him off. " At that point an approach was made and met with a clear response. That was when things should have stopped. That is how potential relationship escalation should work: an offer is made in some way and based on the response the proposer gets an idea on how to proceed (in this case - bugger off). It is a…

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Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#46
post #44
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for medical issues. You, or I, or anyone else on here doesn't get to say she doesn't have PTSD. That's up to a doctor.

If I'm allowed to be pedantic, and going beyond the story under discussion, people can (and should be allowed to) disagree even for medical issues. It's not just blind trust to whatever diagnoses doctors do. Talking of course here for "soft" diagnoses -- few would disagree with an actual physiological diagnosis of a medical problem. Until a few decades ago, homosexuality was a disease that was OK to be cured with thi…

[deleted]

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#47
post #20
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to set the bar for her. That's something she was reserving for the most special people in her life, he took it from her, despite clear protestations, and it felt like he faced no real consequences for it. I can see how that could leave one with a pervasive feeling of disempowerment and victimization.

> You don't get to set the bar for her. Words have meanings, just because someone interprets them in their own way, doesn't mean they can claim X when it's not considered warranted. So regardless of this particular case, we can, and do, society collectively does set the bar for what can be considered X or Y -- and someone can argue based on that. (That said, grabbing her hand and not letting go despite attempts to fr…

You are being pedantic. Clearly the bar getting set in this case is what degree of sexual assault is traumatizing. That is a personal issue, even within our collective society, and you don't get to set that for the victim.

Pedantry over trivial side issues serves to distract from the primary issue at hand, which, as another commented, doesn't make your priorities look so hot.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#48
post #44
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for medical issues. You, or I, or anyone else on here doesn't get to say she doesn't have PTSD. That's up to a doctor.

If I'm allowed to be pedantic, and going beyond the story under discussion, people can (and should be allowed to) disagree even for medical issues. It's not just blind trust to whatever diagnoses doctors do. Talking of course here for "soft" diagnoses -- few would disagree with an actual physiological diagnosis of a medical problem. Until a few decades ago, homosexuality was a disease that was OK to be cured with thi…

[deleted]

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#49
post #39
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article clearly states the photo is the moment he's forcibly holding the woman's hand against her will.

I can't tell if you are trying to be helpful or trying to be critical of me. I don't see a clear label. The photo fits the description given in the article, but if the article clearly states that THIS, right here, is the photo in question, I am failing to see it. Which, you know, could just be because I have pathetic eyesight. But I honestly do not see a clear and unequivocal indicator to that effect.

Trying to be helpful.

Here are the excerpts from the article.

> I realized she was taking a photo. Later, when I asked her why she had done that, she said she didn’t get what was going on. Being photographed in that situation by someone I kept hoping would help me felt terrible.

> I saved the photo my friend took, even though I hated knowing it was in my storage.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#50

Why is anyone acting surprised that the man is still in place at his company, when Mr. Grab-em-by-the-pussy is also Mr. Most-powerful-man-on-the-planet? Especially considering he was elected by the United States of America AFTER those comments were made public? Control your expectations about the world people. It's only a nice place as depicted in media. Many, many, terms and conditions sadly apply :-(

The "Lead by example" behaviour mode is going to get more visible in the US, I imagine. Let's hope that most of the population has a good sense of what is right and what is wrong and only do the right things.
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