Live data from Hacker News

Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

blog.theironyard.com

61–70 of 139 posts

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#61
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I taught at a traditional institution and had the same experiences you did. Although I had to leave because I lost confidence in the institution. I think you'd find the same challenges in a slower-paced program, to be honest - there's plenty to do. While I only spent 4 hours a day in the classroom, I spent the rest of it either grading, revising lessons to keep things fresh, or grading assessments. The most time cons…

Thanks for that perspective. I wonder if there's a better way to go about teaching? It sounds like the current model for both code-schools and universities is pretty crappy for the teachers. What can be done to improve this, do you think?

I have many many thoughts on what model would work. Sorry if this gets ranty...

I believe that the models that will be successful are models where there is curriculum designed to be done asynchronously, with ample time for practice and repetition to build skills, followed by assessment and feedback.

You do not need a classroom for this. A wise man once told me that a good teacher is not the sage on the stage, they are the guide on the side. And that's what adults need. They don't need to all sit in a room together being held back cos one person doesn't understand it. Lecture and talking and demos can all be done online on Youtube.

Or you make a web site, write some content and make some videos, give some practice problems with unit tests that tell the student if they got them right. Easy peasy. Nobody's time is wasted.

The third part is the part that doesn't scale - you need people to provide coaching and feedback. And you need one on one time to discuss feedback, options, choices, etc.\

Think about this:

If I tell you to make me a five page web site with a contact form, appropriate color scheme, valid semantic markup, clean CSS, appropriate color scheme, and content, then I have to do the following:

1. Develop lessons to give you the information on how to do these things 2. Give you ample opportunities and time to practice and excel at these things individually 3. Give you detailed feedback on your practice so you can practice more 4. Give you the time to do the assessment well 5. Review your work and give you detailed feedback on it so you learn.

Notice that I start with an end in mind, then work it out to get you to be successful - I don't just start teaching you a bunch of stuff and then make up some test... it's all planned out.

So the curriculum design takes time and planning. It's an art and science of its own and we learn new things about how people learn all the time. But a small group of folks can take the time to put curriculum together. There are people who study this for a living. They're not subject matter experts though, so you kinda do need both.

But notice all the places where there's review and feedback. That's the part that doesn't scale. That takes time. It takes a LONG time to give good, detailed feedback to a learner so they can improve. Your job isn't to fail them - it's to make sure they're successful - if they do their part and you do yours, they will be. (Obviously if you only put an hour into this final project there won't be much for me to give feedback on, so the learner has to put in the effort too) But you are their guide on the side, not the keeper of all knowledge that they must appease.

So to find people who are caring individuals who can be these instructors, who can help people understand the curriculum, who can coach them through the process, who can meet with them... that doesn't scale. People will need to be compensated for this. With benefits so they don't have to worry about their own well-being as well as their students'. But if you can figure out a way to scale this and finance it, it would work well. I interviewed for and was offered a position at a bootcamp that had a model very similar to this, but they were doing a commission-based salary based on number of students that chose you as their coach, so it was too risky for me. I hear they changed their model tho and are doing well. Hopefully more places will catch on.

Bottom line - good curriculum designed with outcomes in mind from the start, with everything aligned, is a good start. But learning happens through practice and feedback - I don't care how many times you read the book or watch the Pluralsight videos - you won't learn it till you practice it, do challenges someone else offers you, and internalize the feedback they give you once you're done.

Ah well... this got super ranty and I'm tired. I hope it makes sense. You can email me if you want to chat about this more. I'd be happy to do that.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit because of a wonderful group of musicians that I get to perform and spend time with. From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. Detroit has problems, but it's been four years since the bankruptcy and we're actually building new offices downtown because the existing buildings are only 5% vacant. There's progress being made every day, but that wou…

> From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. I have been to Detroit. It was pretty low energy, and that was some years ago (six?). Since then the crime has risen and the population and economic activity have declined. The mere fact that some buildings are being built in some places does not indicate that things are getting much better. I understand the Michigander pride, but I d…

Oh, and about the crime: most of it is either property theft or drug-related. The truth is: if you aren't in a gang or buying drugs somewhere you shouldn't be, you'll more than likely be fine. You sound like all of the grumpy old white people who live in my neighborhood and expect Detroit to be Ferndale or Royal Oak or Ann Arbor. It's not. Also, welcome to cities, they have crime.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#64

There are a great number of excellent reasons not to be in Detroit, as a business or an individual. The taxes are outrageous, the government is corrupt, the people who could afford to leave have all but left, the infrastructure is even worse than you'd expect given the ratio of revenue to services. 90% of murders go completely unresolved. That is, out of every ten people killed, and there are a lot, the perpetrators…

The burbs seem "fine", and crimes get solved. I could see living in the burbs and not minding it too much. I wouldn't live in the city limits, but I wouldn't live in NYC either..

You've never tried to take I-75 into the city or back to the suburbs during rush hour, have you? The burbs are fine if you like that and paying way too much money for a tiny apartment or house, sure.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way state schools currently cost $40k. Maybe $15k. Easy federal aid money certainly helps push up the price tag. It's effectively a subsidy.

UO -> In-state: $26,000, out of state: $49,000 OSU -> In-state: $26,000, out of state: $45,000 PSU -> In-state: $30,000+, out of state: $43,000 MSU -> In-state: $27,000, out of state: $51,000 UM (Michigan) -> In-state: $29,000, out of state: $60,000 UM (Miami) -> $64,306

These prices look like they include room and board and such after spot checking a couple, e.g. http://undergrad.osu.edu/cost-and-aid/basic-costs gives in-state tuition for an incoming freshman of 11K per year.

You can argue that talking about tuition alone is misleading, but it wasn't included 15 years ago either, and yet 10K/year for in-state is around where things were back then too, IIRC.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#67

There are a great number of excellent reasons not to be in Detroit, as a business or an individual. The taxes are outrageous, the government is corrupt, the people who could afford to leave have all but left, the infrastructure is even worse than you'd expect given the ratio of revenue to services. 90% of murders go completely unresolved. That is, out of every ten people killed, and there are a lot, the perpetrators…

> You truly can not expect any sane person with another option to choose Detroit

This is the second time today that we've had to ask you to stop posting uncivil comments to HN. I don't want to ban you, but if you don't fix this we'll have to, so would you please fix this?

(Re-)reading the following might help:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14817477 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit because of a wonderful group of musicians that I get to perform and spend time with. From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. Detroit has problems, but it's been four years since the bankruptcy and we're actually building new offices downtown because the existing buildings are only 5% vacant. There's progress being made every day, but that wou…

> From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. I have been to Detroit. It was pretty low energy, and that was some years ago (six?). Since then the crime has risen and the population and economic activity have declined. The mere fact that some buildings are being built in some places does not indicate that things are getting much better. I understand the Michigander pride, but I d…

Did you know that some people in Detroit are much more likely to be murdered than others? 1 in 2000 doesn't mean that you roll the dice every day and pray. The people being murdered are overwhelmingly poor people getting involved in drugs/gang activity or domestic violence or what-have-you.

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#69

There are a great number of excellent reasons not to be in Detroit, as a business or an individual. The taxes are outrageous, the government is corrupt, the people who could afford to leave have all but left, the infrastructure is even worse than you'd expect given the ratio of revenue to services. 90% of murders go completely unresolved. That is, out of every ten people killed, and there are a lot, the perpetrators…

I moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit because of a wonderful group of musicians that I get to perform and spend time with. From a Detroiter to one who clearly has never been here, kindly go fuck yourself. Detroit has problems, but it's been four years since the bankruptcy and we're actually building new offices downtown because the existing buildings are only 5% vacant. There's progress being made every day, but that wou…

> go fuck yourself.

A spirited defense of Detroit is certainly welcome, but we ban accounts that resort to personal attack. Would you please not post like this here?

Re: Iron Yard code school to close all campuses

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public school tuition doesn't cost 40k a year. An employee is not the same as a shareholder.

Your right, it's only about $30k per year. And an employee isn't the same as a shareholder, unless that employee controls a non-profit, runs it to make substantial profits and skims those profits by paying themselves and their cronies massive salaries. Go look up the salaries of your state school President, Administrators, Athletic Director, Football and Basketball Coaches, and Professors.

well said and so true.
Post reply on HN