Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#111

Post by dazilcher » Tue, Jul 18, 2017, 12:28 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #96

dazilcher wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must call BS on your first point: it's not just false, but also quite naive to think that an immigration program would purposely target low-skilled individuals. First, DV is supposed to use random selection (lottery) - so the resulting distribution should reflect the statistical makeup of the applicant pool. Second, one of the DV requirements is a high school diploma - so the pool is biased towards higher education…

How did you meet all these DV immigrants?

Some at work, most in the extended circles (being an immigrant myself).

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#112

Post by tempForaReply13 » Tue, Jul 18, 2017, 2:32 PM UTC

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #86

brooklyntribe wrote: post #74

Republicans are "afraid" of unknowns. People, places things. It seems to be wired in. They are not really racists, just they are "afraid." Probably goes back to ancient days. Who is that stranger? Do they carry a disease, will they take my wife, etc. Why take a chance? While Democrats seem to welcome the unknown. Take that chance. Lets just take a leap. WTF, life is to experience it all. And then we die. Seems that w…

Doesn't explain why Republicans freed the slaves and Democrats fought for 60 years to bring it back... but whatever floats your boat. I wish you best of luck to your trip to Mars. Hope it is one way.

The Republican party that freed the slaves is not the current Republican party.

The Democrat party that fought to restore slavery is not the current Democrat party.

That stuff happened a long, long time ago.

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#113

Post by tempForaReply13 » Tue, Jul 18, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

hiram112 wrote: post #51

fazkan wrote: post #49

and then the rise of the remote empires began. I am sure most companies will find a way to hire talent remotely. The positive side of this act would be that huge companies will start to think about hiring people remotely. Which would mean improved practices in managing remote talent. and frankly I think its overdue, the tools are the technology is there, why the do you need borders to impede your company's progress.

We've been hearing this warning forever. The truth is, if the remote teams in low cost places like India and China worked so well, they would have long ago offshored everything. Cause let's be honest, most companies can't even deal with remote working once or twice a week from their own employees in the same city.

I work with a team in India. I work in the midwest.

The time difference is awful. I'm up until 3am, regularly, and occasionally have to work from 11pm-3am, then get up again for an 8am call.

There's a reason that this isn't that common. It _sucks_.

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#114

Post by tempForaReply13 » Tue, Jul 18, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

calvinbhai wrote: post #82

jurassic wrote: post #11

I'm the only person on my team with American citizenship, but my teammates are all so talented. And nice. It makes me sad to think about the stress and insecurity these changes could cause them.

I wonder if current immigration rules don't cause any stress to your team members. Just because they don't talk about it, doesn't mean they are not stressing about it. If any of them are from India/China and they understand what's really happening with the immigration policies in the US, they'll probably love these upcoming changes (related to merit based immigration)

oh man... I'm sitting here wondering if I'm even going to have a job next week because of these kinds of changes. It's been like this all year. I've been looking for a job in my country for months, and have only had one interview.

If I was a stress drinker, I'd be going through a couple bottles of wine a day at this point.

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#115

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 18, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

calvinbhai wrote: post #82

jurassic wrote: post #11

I'm the only person on my team with American citizenship, but my teammates are all so talented. And nice. It makes me sad to think about the stress and insecurity these changes could cause them.

I wonder if current immigration rules don't cause any stress to your team members. Just because they don't talk about it, doesn't mean they are not stressing about it. If any of them are from India/China and they understand what's really happening with the immigration policies in the US, they'll probably love these upcoming changes (related to merit based immigration)

[deleted]

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#116

Post by Banthum » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 1:13 AM UTC

ido wrote: post #50

Banthum wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was before there were billions of Africans, Indians, and Indonesians a few hours travel from the United States. Times change. Also this part is important: "yearning to breathe free" is quite different from "yearning to establish a global Caliphate".

Yearning to establish a caliphate is a boogeyman. The vast majority of immigrants to the US are not Muslim and the vast majority of Muslim immigrants are not schemeing to establish a caliphate.

The "scheming" comment is a classic false dichotomy.

There's a big spectrum of behavior towards a political outcome between "opposed with deadly force" and "supportive with deadly force". Most Germans in 1940 wouldn't personally gun down Jews, nor even directly participate in organizing such a thing. But nor did they didn't oppose it with force, or energetically ensure it didn't happen.

Of course most Muslims aren't "scheming" to establish a caliphate, but they wouldn't oppose it the way you or I would.

This is an obvious reality that people just don't like to acknowledge.

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#117

Post by anotherbrownguy » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 7:02 AM UTC

tempForaReply13 wrote: post #112

anotherbrownguy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't explain why Republicans freed the slaves and Democrats fought for 60 years to bring it back... but whatever floats your boat. I wish you best of luck to your trip to Mars. Hope it is one way.

The Republican party that freed the slaves is not the current Republican party. The Democrat party that fought to restore slavery is not the current Democrat party. That stuff happened a long, long time ago.

They are ideologically equivalent to their historical counterparts at their cores.

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#118

Post by ido » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 7:10 AM UTC

Banthum wrote: post #116

ido wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yearning to establish a caliphate is a boogeyman. The vast majority of immigrants to the US are not Muslim and the vast majority of Muslim immigrants are not schemeing to establish a caliphate.

The "scheming" comment is a classic false dichotomy. There's a big spectrum of behavior towards a political outcome between "opposed with deadly force" and "supportive with deadly force". Most Germans in 1940 wouldn't personally gun down Jews, nor even directly participate in organizing such a thing. But nor did they didn't oppose it with force, or energetically ensure it didn't happen. Of course most Muslims aren't…

I live in the 2nd-most Turkish neighborhood of the most Turkish city outside of Turkey (Tempelhof, in Berlin), I think I may have more personal first-hand experience with muslim immigrants than you do.

They are for the vast, overwhelming majorly part, just normal people not unlike natives of the same social class. yes, if you compare the "typical" working class muslim to professional yuppies they come across a lot more conservative but not more so than the local-western working class.

And the muslim professional class (the doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc among them) are similarly not very different in this aspect from the local-western professional yuppies.

I think the discrepancy in perspective is that most yuppies don't otherwise notice the native working class.

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#119

Post by fazkan » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 1:59 PM UTC

hiram112 wrote: post #51

fazkan wrote: post #49

and then the rise of the remote empires began. I am sure most companies will find a way to hire talent remotely. The positive side of this act would be that huge companies will start to think about hiring people remotely. Which would mean improved practices in managing remote talent. and frankly I think its overdue, the tools are the technology is there, why the do you need borders to impede your company's progress.

We've been hearing this warning forever. The truth is, if the remote teams in low cost places like India and China worked so well, they would have long ago offshored everything. Cause let's be honest, most companies can't even deal with remote working once or twice a week from their own employees in the same city.

Well, I think, the difference now is that the technology is mature enough to enable distributed work. I work at Mentor Graphics, and altough its embedded software most of my managers work from EU/US timezone and they all work from home.

I don't know how people used to manage their issues before jira/github but it certainly has helped remote work. Plus the internet as a whole is penetrating developing countries so the issues of no internet and lag is not there anymore.

I can't back this up with data but, I have personally seen a rise in the remote first companies. the first name that comes to mind is Linaro, plus I think red hat also supports remote hires. All the dev ops jobs that I see are remote.

So yes the change is a difficult one and it needs a particular mindset on the managers side as well. But I think the threshold to become a remote company is a lot lower now...

Re: Trump Administration to Slash Green Cards by 50%, Affecting H1-B/EB

#120

Post by calvinbhai » Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

dazilcher wrote: post #109

calvinbhai wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apologies if my point came across as condescending. That wasn't my intention. High school diploma is not exactly high skilled. But I agree with the rest of what you say, that there are a good number of immigrants on DV who are high skilled, including you. But the problem of basic skilled immigrants getting DV lottery over highly skilled immigrants from certain countries getting shafted still remains as is. Most ta…

DV, as its name suggests, is an immigration program, not an employment program. I happen to believe it tends to filter applicants educated above the local population average, but that is not its primary purpose. And that's a good thing - prioritizing immigration based on the hot job du jour seems quite dangerous and guaranteed to produce the opposite of "diverse".

I believe, the Immigration program intends to make up for the lower TFR in US, so that there is a consistent rate of increase in the population.

Until now, immigrants who were not highly skilled (with graduate degrees) were needed to fill the space, but increasing levels of automation and AI, its dangerous for US to not tweak its immigration program to factor this in. If immigrants coming to US have no job prospects, it can only lead to more abuse of immigrants and / or rise in crime.

Immigration need not be prioritized based on the "hot job market", but needs to be prioritized based on those who can remain employed with increasing levels of automation and AI.