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$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

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Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#191

Post by dx034 »

renaudg wrote: post #132

Anyone else feeling slightly uneasy with the exciting and "disruptive" plan of ushering a population of 1.3 billion into the glorious era of the fossil-fuelled car ? Seems exactly what the world needs right now.

Just because the "developed" world has already brought us 90% to irreversible damage doesn't mean that we should deny cars to people who couldn't afford them previously. I'm sure that those cars will be sold as EVs as soon as that's feasible. Meanwhile countries that have the money could probably do more to reduce emissions. India's efforts to reduce emissions (i.e. increase them less) look extremely ambitions given their budget.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#192

Post by ensiferum »

calafrax wrote: post #72
ensiferum wrote: post #14

Why can't take they make a car like this for the European market? Not everybody wants to spend +20k € on a car. Somehow I feel this would probably cost +10k in Europe so what gives?

Do you have used cars in Europe? The US is flooded with used cars and you can get something much better than this for $4000.

Depends where you live. For example in Finland with high tax on cars for 4000€ you can get a -00 Toyota Corolla with 250k km on it.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#193

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

snambi wrote: post #47
StreamBright wrote: post #44

Is a cheap car what we call disruption in 2017, really? We know that cars do not scale, look at LA traffic. Seems like a pretty bad idea to replicate the same problems to the 3rd world.

Cars for India is really stupid idea, where most people keep their cars parked for 99.99% of the time.

Is this not the case in most places?

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#194

Post by m_mueller »

CalRobert wrote: post #183
m_mueller wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

To get a decent idea of what's going on, you need to know VMT per capita, fatalities per vmt, how many crashes are fatal, and ideally quite a few other things (urban/rural mix, etc.). One of the best ways to make roads safer would be to just let people drive less. The US has fairly safe roads per VMT (by world standards), but people end up driving a lot more than in most other places, which negates this somewhat.

I'd argue that even by VMT the US isn't that safe - it's still double the fatalities compared to the UK.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#195

Post by vivekd »

So wait, this means that if it weren't for safety and emission standards I'd be able to go out and buy a new car for 4000 dollars and a used car for a tiny fraction of that? I get that others want safety, but for me that's not as important as avoiding debt. Shouldn't I have the right to make that choice on my own?

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#196

Post by agumonkey »

NoPiece wrote: post #73
Retric wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on top speed. If you moped never breaks 25mph then a car doing 50mph could easily be less safe. It's also much more dangerous to people around you.

The most reliable mopeds still crash and get hit. Fatalities per mile are greater bicycles and motorcycles than cars.

I'd be very curious about the stats. Above 35-40 you quickly notice a change in momentum. At least a car might have better brakes and stability.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#197

Post by jpkeisala »

EngineerBetter wrote: post #177

Kinda off-topic: I own a Renault Zoe, which is an EV hatchback that you can get second-hand for about £4k, and also a Tesla Model X 90D. People get far too excited by Tesla's brand, when there are really competitive EVs out there. Feel free to AMA about EVs or how mine compare.

How is the charging time and mileage on Zoe vs. Model X?

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#198

Post by wilg »

vivekd wrote: post #195

So wait, this means that if it weren't for safety and emission standards I'd be able to go out and buy a new car for 4000 dollars and a used car for a tiny fraction of that? I get that others want safety, but for me that's not as important as avoiding debt. Shouldn't I have the right to make that choice on my own?

To answer your first question: no. And as for the second, mostly no, unless you are purchasing a car that only kills or injures yourself when you get into a crash and also the emissions only go into your house and stay there.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#199

Post by mantas »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #175
skinnymuch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We don't know what'll happen, but if you know an automated car will stop for you even if you're in the wrong, then why not go for it if you're already in an environment and culture with aggressive pedestrians and drivers.

Because you'll be more likely to feel sorry for the driver, and less likely to feel defensive. It will be no more socially acceptable to jaywalk in front of an autonomous car than it would be to cut in line. (And yes, I know, line-cutting is rampant in China... but in India?)

India is famous for belly-to-back lines. Google images for "india line"

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#200

Post by nsomaru »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #175
skinnymuch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We don't know what'll happen, but if you know an automated car will stop for you even if you're in the wrong, then why not go for it if you're already in an environment and culture with aggressive pedestrians and drivers.

Because you'll be more likely to feel sorry for the driver, and less likely to feel defensive. It will be no more socially acceptable to jaywalk in front of an autonomous car than it would be to cut in line. (And yes, I know, line-cutting is rampant in China... but in India?)

It's rampant in India. People just ignore you and step in front. They will then pointedly ignore you.

Once in Bangalore airport I brought it to the attention of a guy who just did it, and he said "do you know where you are? You're in India, man."

I love India, but this one aspect is frustrating sometimes. (Along with the mini war that happens when boarding/disembarking local trains)

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