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$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

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Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#181

Post by Tepix »

walrus01 wrote: post #161

One thing that is not mentioned in the article at all, other than the existence of scooters, is that specifically a huge number of them are 2-stroke gasoline engines which are incredibly polluting. It's worth having a discussion about the environmental implications of a growing middle class in south asia buying cars, but at least if scooters are replaced with cars such as this on a 1:1 basis, the air will be a LOT cl…

> The typical two stroke scooter pollutes more than a giant american gas guzzling SUV from 20 years ago.

Citation needed.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#182

Post by hosh »

alexchantavy wrote: post #110
thinkloop wrote: post #84

So painful to read this article. How did it get on the front page? Is it that it's funny how confidently the author has no idea what "disrupt" means? Summary: new car introduced at same price as current leading car in category, but with a bit more room and slightly nicer, and they give you cake when you pick it up. Literally, that's the whole article.

For the below paragraphs alone I think this article is more than deserving of the front page: > Short of a supercar delivery, I have never witnessed such time and effort spent on a customer. Actually, that’s the jaded American in me talking. Power Renault Kattupakkam didn’t spend this time and effort. They devoted it. They invested it, in a way merely given lip service during the sales training most American salespeo…

It is so weird seeing all these comments focused on price, perceived lack of quality, or how the article is link bait. The most important comparison between that $4000 car and Tesla is in the sales model, the delivery, and what happens after.

I was fascinated by the priest coming in to conduct puja as part of ceremonially handing the car over to the new owners. While it probably won't fly in America, it is this blending of modern and traditional that is lacking when we commoditized everything.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#183

Post by CalRobert »

m_mueller wrote: post #139
gnarmis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... Sorting by the second column gives a good picture about which country has more dangerous drivers. And Thailand is #2... so your claim tracks well against this reality.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

To get a decent idea of what's going on, you need to know VMT per capita, fatalities per vmt, how many crashes are fatal, and ideally quite a few other things (urban/rural mix, etc.).

One of the best ways to make roads safer would be to just let people drive less. The US has fairly safe roads per VMT (by world standards), but people end up driving a lot more than in most other places, which negates this somewhat.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#184

Post by ploek »

seshagiric wrote: post #113
gnarmis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... Sorting by the second column gives a good picture about which country has more dangerous drivers. And Thailand is #2... so your claim tracks well against this reality.

I wouldn't put much into that data - a number of accidents go unreported by involved parties or not published by govt. for various reasons.

For fender benders or even total car writeoffs, sure. But for fatalities? From my admittedly narrow and predominantly first-world view that doesn't sound plausible.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#185

Post by walrus01 »

Tepix wrote: post #181
walrus01 wrote: post #161

One thing that is not mentioned in the article at all, other than the existence of scooters, is that specifically a huge number of them are 2-stroke gasoline engines which are incredibly polluting. It's worth having a discussion about the environmental implications of a growing middle class in south asia buying cars, but at least if scooters are replaced with cars such as this on a 1:1 basis, the air will be a LOT cl…

> The typical two stroke scooter pollutes more than a giant american gas guzzling SUV from 20 years ago. Citation needed.

https://phys.org/news/2014-05-two-stroke-scooters-super-poll...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1247506/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/1083467...

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#186

Post by gambiting »

All the article is telling me is that American dealership experience must be incredibly shitty. We bought a brand new VW Polo here in the UK(and Polo is the cheapest VW car you can buy here), on the delivery day it was waiting for us in the dealership wrapped in ribbons, my partner got a massive bouquet of flowers, there were cards saying "happy new car day ", and two sales assistants spent a lot of time with us showing us every bit of the car. That sounds pretty similar to the experience described in the article, minus the religious parts.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#187

Post by gambiting »

unethical_ban wrote: post #25
danhak wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety requirements. Here's a crash test between a 2015 Nissan Tsuru, the least expensive sedan sold by Nissan in Mexico, and a 2016 Nissan Versa, the least expensive sedan sold by Nissan in the United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85OysZ_4lp0

Put a 2017 Nissan Versa against a 2017 Harley Davidson. They're both allowed on the road. I've wondered if less safe vehicles (lighter, cheaper, smaller) could be made and required NOT to be on high speed roadways (above 45mph, freeways, etc.), or just have the US admit their regs are too strenuous.

I don't know about US, but in EU you can buy mini-cars that have 4 wheels, but are equipped with 50-250cc engines, and do not classify as cars legally, so you don't even need a car driving licence - a moped driving licence is usually enough. They also don't have to conform to "car" safety standards(they usually do have seatbelts though), and yeah, they are not allowed on the motorways in most EU countries, just like mopeds aren't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW2nI7VdS_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdw6mgtTwt8

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#188

Post by sangnoir »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #171
woodandsteel wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is arguing that the $4k Renault is as disruptive in India as the Tesla is in the US. That seems like a reasonable claim.

Tata Nano ($1600 equivalent) didn't disrupt a thing, why would this?

If you had read the article, you would know Renault's answer to this question.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#189

Post by Symbiote »

ploek wrote: post #184
seshagiric wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't put much into that data - a number of accidents go unreported by involved parties or not published by govt. for various reasons.

For fender benders or even total car writeoffs, sure. But for fatalities? From my admittedly narrow and predominantly first-world view that doesn't sound plausible.

I saw two fatal accidents in Vietnam in the three weeks I was visiting. This wasn't unusual, other tourists saw similar numbers.

I'd guess wealthy drivers simply paid the deceased's family (and the police if necessary), or in other cases the pedestrian or cyclist was blamed entirely and the accident not recorded as a motor vehicle accident.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#190

Post by apexalpha »

overcast wrote: post #126
harigov wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic speed in cities is usually so bad that you will rarely if ever meet with a major accident using these cars. That doesn't mean that safety isn't important. It's just that we are not talking about 70mph American freeway speeds.

I spent a month traveling ALL of India last year. In the immediate cities sure. But go outside to the "highways", and it's like Mad Max out there. Seriously. Everyone is hauling ass on no lane roads, passing each other constantly into oncoming traffic. Also NO ONE wears seat belts. I had to demand them in cars that were picking me up. Usually they were either disconnected, or hiding away never used. It's terrifying.

You did an entire (sub)continent in one month? Did you spend all your time on the road/tracks?
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