$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3 • Hacker News Board

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#151

Post by danans » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 2:48 AM UTC

danans wrote: post #70

harigov wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic speed in cities is usually so bad that you will rarely if ever meet with a major accident using these cars. That doesn't mean that safety isn't important. It's just that we are not talking about 70mph American freeway speeds.

Traffic speed is not constrained on the brand new inter-city freeways being built in India, though. I had that experience as a passenger not too long ago, and the high speeds + Indian driving habits were ... exciting.

And by exciting, I don't mean fun or pleasant.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#152

Post by jdavis703 » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 2:53 AM UTC

swimfar wrote: post #147

m_mueller wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

Comparing fatalities per 100k people seems like a pretty useless statistic when we're talking about safety standards. If you look at fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles it's 12.9 compared to 130. So 10x as much. An even better statistic to use would be fatalities per 1 billion vehicle miles. But that data isn't available for India.

Non-motorized transportation options aren't counted in vehicle miles. So accidents involving pedastrians, bicycles and other bystanders would skew this some. Since car accidents don't just hurt other motorists it's useful to measure this against the total population.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#153

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 2:53 AM UTC

swimfar wrote: post #147

m_mueller wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

Comparing fatalities per 100k people seems like a pretty useless statistic when we're talking about safety standards. If you look at fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles it's 12.9 compared to 130. So 10x as much. An even better statistic to use would be fatalities per 1 billion vehicle miles. But that data isn't available for India.

[deleted]

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#154

Post by jdavis703 » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 2:56 AM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #149

weeksie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

>More people driving and perhaps being the first in their families to actually own a car means bad news. Yeah, god forbid the masses get access to effective means of personal transportation. /s

Effective means of personal transportation shouldn't mean four wheeled vehicles by default. Bikes, motor scooters, motorcycles, Oneboards, skateboards, etc are all probably much more effective than single occupancy drivers in a 4-5 seat vehicle.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#155

Post by babesh » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 2:56 AM UTC

Why don’t you just limit the speed of the car to how much impact it can take without seriously injuring the passéngers and possibly pedestrians? That car can’t take a 40mph impact but maybe it can take a 25mph one?

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#156

Post by freehunter » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 3:03 AM UTC

babesh wrote: post #155

Why don’t you just limit the speed of the car to how much impact it can take without seriously injuring the passéngers and possibly pedestrians? That car can’t take a 40mph impact but maybe it can take a 25mph one?

But other cars aren’t limited to this speed. If I hit a car at 25 mph it might be safe, but if I hit it at 100mph that’s a different story. That other car has no input on how fast I hit it.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#157

Post by cakedoggie » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 3:06 AM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #44

Is a cheap car what we call disruption in 2017, really? We know that cars do not scale, look at LA traffic. Seems like a pretty bad idea to replicate the same problems to the 3rd world.

It is literally disruption. Disruption to the city, to pedestrians and cyclists, to traffic, to well flowing movement (not sure that applies to Indian cities).

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#158

Post by pkaye » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 3:23 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #5

That ceremony looks monstrously tiring to an introverted westerner like me. I don't want to cut a cake and watch a priest bless my car; I want to walk onto a lot, look over the car I pre-selected online to make sure it's the right one, and then give someone some money and drive away. I'm also wondering how long that friendly attitude - and the traveling pop-up repair program - will last. Once everyone wants one of th…

The puja ceremony is part of Hindu culture on any major financial transaction. Even in the US, it is common for Hindu families to perform it after buying a car or home though perhaps not as elaborate. Also you will find in India the stores have many more staff compared to US stores. Imagine Walmart with an employee manning every isle. I guess due to labor cost being much lower.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#159

Post by mastazi » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 3:46 AM UTC

apendleton wrote: post #89

NoPiece wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most reliable mopeds still crash and get hit. Fatalities per mile are greater bicycles and motorcycles than cars.

Fatalities per mile is a tricky metric for comparing across modes, though. At least in the US, people getting cars often comes with adopting a car-centric lifestyle: you move to the suburbs, your commute and trips to the grocery store get significantly longer, etc. This is why fatalities per mile are higher on a bike, but fatalities per trip are actually slightly lower than a car: people with cars take longer trips.

> This is why fatalities per mile are higher on a bike, but fatalities per trip are actually slightly lower than a car: people with cars take longer trips.

Maybe I'm just dense but how does that invalidate parent's point? Based on what you are saying (difference in trip length), it appears that fatalities per mile actually does a better job (than fatalities per trip) at representing the relative safety of different classes of vehicles...

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#160

Post by blunte » Thu, Jul 20, 2017, 4:14 AM UTC

The problem of car safety isn't solved by the Renault driver driving slowly. The risk is still significant when the speeding large truck fails to stop/yield (is that even a concept?) and plows into the car.

Meanwhile, look at all the energy (and human time) being put into selling one car, but the streets and surrounding areas are covered in trash and worse.

I would much rather see these car salespeople doing what "The Ugly Indian" (see Facebook for group) is doing - cleaning up and decorating disgusting areas and teaching people by example how not to trash their home environments.