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$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

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Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#141

Post by abawany »

arprocter wrote: post #121
abawany wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare this to a 80s Mercedes 190: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1GNfA_AnU . The passenger cell remains solid though the crash dummies experience injuries. I often wonder how much better the automotive market would be if solid designs remained in circulation instead of these new-old mistakes re-entering the market every time.

A 190 in 80s India probably cost quite a bit more than the equivalent of $4k

That's not the point I was making. I am saying that the design principles of good design, especially for safety, should be well known now that decades have passed. Two additional points:

1. Can a 190 of that vintage be had for $4k now? IMO, that is a better investment than the Renault.

2. Could a car company license to build that 190 in India now at a low cost? That would have saved a lot of the design cost and provided folks a safe design.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#142

Post by abawany »

gozur88 wrote: post #129
abawany wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time understanding why 60+ years of knowledge about safety cells is ignored in this design-to-cost. I don't know how much more the cost of this car would have been in materials if reasonable attention had been paid to maintaining the integrity of the passenger compartment.

I imagine if they could make a $4k car that's as safe as what you find in the US and Europe they would be sold in the US and Europe.

I have a hard time imagining that 6k of the remaining cost (a basic car in the US can be had at $10k) would be because of a decent safety standard. I am curious to know how much more than $4k this Renault would be if they had spent a little time designing a safer passenger cell.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#143

Post by johnm1019 »

renaudg wrote: post #132

Anyone else feeling slightly uneasy with the exciting and "disruptive" plan of ushering a population of 1.3 billion into the glorious era of the fossil-fuelled car ? Seems exactly what the world needs right now.

The value created by access to a car they can afford will advance both India and the world to the next level of health, abundance, and technology. Just as the car and the ICE advanced so many other places of the world from the horse cart. With that I believe will come the education and technology needed to push us past ICEs and further into the future.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#144

Post by olegkikin »

krishicks wrote: post #26

Crash test results: 0 stars https://youtu.be/jePu-6TxypI Reminds me of the Tata Nano (also 0 stars): https://youtu.be/buMXtGoHHIg

Also remember that the NCAP crash tests are done at 40 MPH, so it's a suicide car even at low speeds.

For that money I'd rather buy a used Toyota with actual airbags.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#146

Post by abawany »

lucaspiller wrote: post #140
abawany wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare this to a 80s Mercedes 190: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1GNfA_AnU . The passenger cell remains solid though the crash dummies experience injuries. I often wonder how much better the automotive market would be if solid designs remained in circulation instead of these new-old mistakes re-entering the market every time.

In a lot of post-Soviet countries, rather than buying new, they import second-hand cars from Western European countries and keep them running. If you have skilled mechanics, and a steady stream of spare parts (from everyone else importing the same cars), it's quite easy to keep your car running up to 300,000km or beyond. The other week I was in Armenia, and although the average wage is $400/mo, you see more BMWs and…

This is a smart plan. A 20 year old MB has technology that is now finally trickling into modern pedestrian cars, such as electronic start key, 5 speed automatic, and side airbags.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#147

Post by swimfar »

m_mueller wrote: post #139
gnarmis wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... Sorting by the second column gives a good picture about which country has more dangerous drivers. And Thailand is #2... so your claim tracks well against this reality.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

Comparing fatalities per 100k people seems like a pretty useless statistic when we're talking about safety standards. If you look at fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles it's 12.9 compared to 130. So 10x as much. An even better statistic to use would be fatalities per 1 billion vehicle miles. But that data isn't available for India.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#149

Post by dsfyu404ed »

weeksie wrote: post #50
smcg wrote: post #16

One of the reasons why the Renault Kwid is $4000 is because, well, it uses cheap materials, and with that comes a very bad safety rating. This is enabled by India's nearly non-existent car safety regulations. Everything has a "price".

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

>More people driving and perhaps being the first in their families to actually own a car means bad news.

Yeah, god forbid the masses get access to effective means of personal transportation. /s

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#150

Post by dsfyu404ed »

cakedoggie wrote: post #137
toomanybeersies wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the road is protected in the same way. I think they are, they just don't care in that part of the world. I remember in Cambodia seeing the Lexus SUVs constantly almost running pedestrians and riders over, if you can afford a Lexus in Cambodia, you can afford to get out of trouble for running someone over (altho…

Do you imagine this is different in any other part of the world? In the West, if you run someone down and even kill them, you will often escape any serious penalty.

What constitutes a "serious penalty" is a function of who you are, how much money you have and who's judging. You and I can probably escape "serious" consequences but most people cannot.
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