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$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

thedrive.com

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Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#131

Post by JamesMcMinn »

nopinsight wrote: post #128
smcg wrote: post #16

One of the reasons why the Renault Kwid is $4000 is because, well, it uses cheap materials, and with that comes a very bad safety rating. This is enabled by India's nearly non-existent car safety regulations. Everything has a "price".

It is still safer than mopeds, the prevalent alternative for most people there. Also, if we think of other road users, less safe cars might encourage the driver to drive more carefully and less likely to endanger others. Edit: I mean that in the context of India where cars, mopeds, bikes, tuk-tuks, and pedestrains intermingle. See the image in the article.

> Also, if we think of other road users, less safe cars might encourage the driver to drive more carefully and less likely to endanger others.

I really hope you intended this as satire. Over a million people die each year in road traffic accidents because people aren't perfect and have accidents. Feeling safe in a car has very little to do with how safe the car itself it, and more to do with how "normal" travelling in a car feels.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#133

Post by JamesMcMinn »

chrisseaton wrote: post #88
lclarkmichalek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety ratings do not account for different speeds, and different driving styles, so it's probably best to assume those are equal, for the sake of the conversion (which is about _safety rating_). Cars are slow to crush. If you're involved in a collision while on a scooter, you don't have a crumple zone to slow down whatever might be eventually hitting you. Cars have seatbelts. If you're hit on a scooter, you are more…

Maybe on a scooter you can nimbly get out of the way of a situation on a crowded Indian road that in a car you can't. More safety features don't help you if the other option doesn't even have a crash in the first place. In the UK you can drive a scooter at 16 but not a car until 17. Is that because they are safer for an inexperienced driver and other road users?

You can drive a Scooter with a _very_ limited power and top speed at 16. They're safer because they don't go any faster than someone with a road bike can cycle.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#134

Post by nopinsight »

JamesMcMinn wrote: post #131
nopinsight wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still safer than mopeds, the prevalent alternative for most people there. Also, if we think of other road users, less safe cars might encourage the driver to drive more carefully and less likely to endanger others. Edit: I mean that in the context of India where cars, mopeds, bikes, tuk-tuks, and pedestrains intermingle. See the image in the article.

> Also, if we think of other road users, less safe cars might encourage the driver to drive more carefully and less likely to endanger others. I really hope you intended this as satire. Over a million people die each year in road traffic accidents because people aren't perfect and have accidents. Feeling safe in a car has very little to do with how safe the car itself it, and more to do with how "normal" travelling i…

If the driver risk compensates, as suggested in research below, the risk to people in the car stays the same by having fewer accidents in less safe cars but the risks to other road users also decrease.

Also, the driving and road culture in most lower income developing countries are very different from those in developed countries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system#Eff...

"Anti-lock brakes are the subject of some experiments centred around risk compensation theory, which asserts that drivers adapt to the safety benefit of ABS by driving more aggressively. In a Munich study, half a fleet of taxicabs was equipped with anti-lock brakes, while the other half had conventional brake systems. The crash rate was substantially the same for both types of cab, and Wilde concludes this was due to drivers of ABS-equipped cabs taking more risks, assuming that ABS would take care of them, while the non-ABS drivers drove more carefully since ABS would not be there to help in case of a dangerous situation.[26]"

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#135

Post by lucaspiller »

smcg wrote: post #16

One of the reasons why the Renault Kwid is $4000 is because, well, it uses cheap materials, and with that comes a very bad safety rating. This is enabled by India's nearly non-existent car safety regulations. Everything has a "price".

Unfortunately this is no different to any other car sold at the same price point in India. There isn't anything special about this price (other than clickbait for Westerners) - other cars like the Suzuki Alto which also don't come with airbags as standard cost the same.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#136

Post by woodandsteel »

cloudwalking wrote: post #107
woodandsteel wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, but if you made it safe, it would be too expensive for most of the target market to buy. This is the developing world. The same thing happens everywhere, a country goes through a period of wild-west capitalism, then, if things go well, eventually it gets rich enough to be able to afford things like safe products, worker safety laws, a social safety net, and so on. I am not aware of any country that has gone stra…

Seems like a bad comparison to a Tesla then, no? Nothing but click bait.

The article is arguing that the $4k Renault is as disruptive in India as the Tesla is in the US. That seems like a reasonable claim.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#137

Post by cakedoggie »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #98
weeksie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

> There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the road is protected in the same way. I think they are, they just don't care in that part of the world. I remember in Cambodia seeing the Lexus SUVs constantly almost running pedestrians and riders over, if you can afford a Lexus in Cambodia, you can afford to get out of trouble for running someone over (altho…

Do you imagine this is different in any other part of the world? In the West, if you run someone down and even kill them, you will often escape any serious penalty.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#138

Post by CamperBob2 »

0x006A wrote: post #97
thrownblown wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the robots will be doing all the driving by then

did anyone let a robot try its luck on an urban street in india yet? looking forward to see how that works out... for sure it will need another mode that is more agressive to not just get stuck.

Hmm. If the pedestrians know they're not engaged in a dominance game with an aggressive human driver, they might actually be more likely to get out of the way.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#139

Post by m_mueller »

gnarmis wrote: post #108
weeksie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

You may find this interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... Sorting by the second column gives a good picture about which country has more dangerous drivers. And Thailand is #2... so your claim tracks well against this reality.

Also interesting: The US has about two thirds the amount of fatalities by 100k people compared to India. I.e. the US should first improve its own stats before trying to school anyone else, especially considering that countries like the UK show that it could be improved 4-fold.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#140

Post by lucaspiller »

abawany wrote: post #75
krishicks wrote: post #26

Crash test results: 0 stars https://youtu.be/jePu-6TxypI Reminds me of the Tata Nano (also 0 stars): https://youtu.be/buMXtGoHHIg

Compare this to a 80s Mercedes 190: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1GNfA_AnU . The passenger cell remains solid though the crash dummies experience injuries. I often wonder how much better the automotive market would be if solid designs remained in circulation instead of these new-old mistakes re-entering the market every time.

In a lot of post-Soviet countries, rather than buying new, they import second-hand cars from Western European countries and keep them running. If you have skilled mechanics, and a steady stream of spare parts (from everyone else importing the same cars), it's quite easy to keep your car running up to 300,000km or beyond.

The other week I was in Armenia, and although the average wage is $400/mo, you see more BMWs and Mercedes on the road than you do in the U.K. Admitidely the climate helps, as you don't need to worry about rust in most of country.

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