521–530 of 560 posts
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Are "average" developers really making much more than 200k/year in base/signing in those cities?
No. In fact most make much less, on the order of $140k all-inclusive.
You have to wonder, if most people who say things like "You only make 200k, you should try $x" are such great developers that they don't realize they are unique, or if they are full of it.
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my expirience is in line with his expirience and i have been on both sides.
Mine as well. I know for a fact that my previous employer paid out nearly twice the raise I asked for just to the recruiter, and that's without factoring in the costs for having other employees run interviews instead of working or HR costs for bringing an employee onboard. Additionally they have to pay market rate for the replacement employee which is all I wanted in the first place! It seems like a lot of these situ…
/s
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No. In fact most make much less, on the order of $140k all-inclusive.
I figured Glassdoor was not crazy! You have to wonder, if most people who say things like "You only make 200k, you should try $x" are such great developers that they don't realize they are unique, or if they are full of it.
1. A company can be underpaying for the employee's experience but paying correctly for the skills the company needs.
2. It should not be a bad thing for an employee to leave a company to advance their career - the current company may not offer the needed opportunities.
3. Managers should be proactively asking the question of the employee: "Let's talk about recognizing when you SHOULD move to a new position at XYZ or some place else?"
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Might work somewhere else. I always felt blackmailed in a situation like this and wished the employee all the best with his new job. [Edit] To clarify the blackmail note: It's better to talk in the weekly 1:1 about salary expectations, changing markets or during people development focus, than to pull up a competing offer out of your hat while not talking about your dissatisfaction with pay during weekly 1:1s. 1. If t…
If an employee is coming to you with those offers instead of just leaving for the other job, shouldn't that indicate to you that they WANT to stay, but they also want to keep their career moving forward and earn more money? Why is that unreasonable? You're sending people out the door that want to continue working for your company just because they're telling you they have better opportunities and giving you a chance…
Career advancement some times requires that the current manager say :
"Sofia, this is a great opportunity for you. While we could make you a counteroffer - you really should make the move to advance your career. Please let me know if you want a counteroffer anyhow."Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 1. If the employee is only motivated by money, he will be gone rather sooner than later as there is always a higher offer around. What else would they be motivated by? It's not their hobby. This doesn't mean they are also not into programming and coding challenges -- but those are constants that they can find in another employer too. if they like the programming, it's not that they can't find a programming job else…
> What else would they be motivated by? The actual work (what is being done), the mission of the company (are you helping kids send pictures that disappear after 10 seconds or are you working on finding a cure to hearing loss?), the team, the location (do I have to spend 2h commuting?), the opportunities to learn, the opportunities to grow, etc. We each value different things, but if money is your only consideration,…
A wage that will enable me to buy a house and my kids to go to college.
Loyalty is not a asset that a bank nor college accepts as payment.
Furthermore, a company is a paper entity, a legal fiction. A company is not a person. A company has no conscious, no dreams, no aspirations.
No human being should pledge loyalty to a piece of paper - which is not capable of returning that loyalty.
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Depends on the company. Some will hand out 30%+ annual pay increases to keep people at market rates. But, many companies are happy to have high turnover in exchange for lower pay.
The only company I know of that publicly makes this (bringing existing people up to market rate) is Netflix. Can you name other companies that actually do this?
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I imagine this is good advice in some places, but as a line manager, if you pull this on me I'm more than likely to shake your hand and wish you luck in your new job. In a lot of places, having a talk with your manager about your salary before going off and actively looking for other offers is going to go down a lot better. Most line managers worth working for, value their teams and will fight for them if they are un…
> but as a line manager, if you pull this on me I'm more than likely to shake your hand and wish you luck in your new job. As your potential employee I'd be more than happy to shake your hand and leave. Very rarely does a company deserve employee loyalty, and you as a linemanager should at least try to earn your employee's loyalty by paying them what they are worth, rather than what you can get away with. Remember, y…
In a smaller company, I would be worried about 'revealing my hand' to a potentially vengeful manager asking for a raise and I would rather just leave than try to get them to counter offer. That is, if I ask for a raise and s/he denies it, I would feel that I would probably be the first one to get cut when the time comes so I might as well leave. In a larger company, I might try to work with the manager on a 'career plan' assuming the manager in question is not toxic; the toxic ones will pretty much ensure that one gets a 'needs-improvement' type rating, which pretty much limits any movement for the unfortunate employee from that point on.
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Mission? Loyalty? Company values? Which would do you live in? You are speaking as if the companies are doing a favor to the employees by giving them a job and the employees are at the mercy of these companies. Being employed with a company is a business transaction, where one party sells their time and skills in exchange for money. Aren't employees disposable anyway? When the company runs low on cash, they are not go…
Perhaps you're getting caught in the labels, like mission & loyalty. It's not about buzz words, or receiving favors. In my experience, there is a substantial difference in the quality of work of a person who cares about what they're doing and someone who doesn't care. Perhaps you've worked with a contractor who was willing to do a half-assed job, only fixing things if they were cornered. I certainly have. Money can m…
Caring about money, caring about mission and loyalty and caring about work are all orthogonal to each other.
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Certain places place high value on domain-specific knowledge and trained employees. I work at a wholesale insurance company (middleman); we have over a hundred individual systems, some simple, some quite complex. Some of those systems can be maintained by any programmer that comes in. Others really shouldn't be maintained by someone who doesn't have good experience in writing maintainable code. But many projects requ…
If you could have made more money by job hopping, and your other programmers left for more money presumably, is your company really valuing experience? It's very easy to say you value experience, but if you wont allocate resources towards employees with experience then your company is signalling that they don't actually value it.
The other programmers didn't leave for more money, though.