Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen • Hacker News Board

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#41

Post by betenoire » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

I wrote a longer answer, but I'll shorten it to: it's not about the adrenaline fix. At some point, your hobbies/passions (hopefully) become an integral part of who you are. Especially ones like this with expertise and life-long pursuits. The rest is balancing act that you hope to get right.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#42

Post by agumonkey » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 8:59 PM UTC

benzofuran wrote: post #18

When you're learning to cave dive, one of the first things that you learn is that you may very well die in there. Most of the training focuses on systems, skills repetition, and understanding and using redundant systems - folks getting into cave diving typically are already extremely experienced divers who if anything need only some minor skill tweaks - most cave instructors will not take on students who don't alread…

I have a bad book hoarding habit yet these one will probably never reach my house. :)

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#43

Post by benzofuran » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

With the proper training and experience, this is an academically rewarding sport / hobby, and is quite safe - still less so than normal open water diving but not the death trap that it seems. The NSS-CDS (http://nsscds.org) keeps accident analysis articles on hand (only seems like older ones are available on the website right now, dead tree is still the boss in this arena) covering these.

Similarly though, there's a trough in the safety numbers where folks between about 100 and 1000 hours seem to be involved in most accidents.

I'm not sure if I'll keep this up if/when I have children, but that's something I'll have to wrestle with when it comes. I have a number of friends who've retired from caving until their kids are teenagers or permanently now that they are fathers & mothers.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#44

Post by aasarava » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

Or maybe what he's saying is, "I would rather my kids learn that they should explore and enjoy the world, rather than never take any big risks."

There are a lot of parents in the world. Once you start judging them (for actions other than abuse and neglect), you very quickly realize how limiting that is. Do we need to look down upon astronauts who have children? What about pilots? People who travel for work for days or weeks at a time? Someone who commutes an hour to work each way in a car that has a poor safety rating?

The good news is that once you become a father, you'll get to decide (possibly with a partner) what the acceptable level of risk is for you and your family.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#45

Post by castis » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

tysonrdm wrote: post #7

There should be a law against bringing in and leaving nylon ropes in the cave. If this continues, all the caves are going to be filled with nylons ropes left by previous divers. Do we want these caves, too, to eventually become a garbage dumping ground?

"I'm not a cave diver, have no emotional attachment to this article, and I don't have even a rudimentary understanding of the culture surrounding cave diving but I made an account just to say I think those people should have arbitrary limits placed on them."

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#46

Post by chad_oliver » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:03 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #36

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

You can decide that having children doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them. If you greatest joy in life is this, you may choose to take the risk. Children are not an all or nothing proposal.

I'm not sure I agree. Children don't ask to be born, and they don't get to agree to that trade-off. Parents are responsible for the children they bring into the world.

That said, parents don't always get a choice. Sometimes pregnancy is unplanned or even unwanted. I'm not sure how much moral responsibility parents bear in this case, but this scenario illustrates that the issue of responsibility isn't always black and white.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#47

Post by manarth » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

You leave your house, walking towards the railway station to catch a train to work. You reach a traffic-crossing near your home, and see the crossing-light flashing orange. You dash across as you're in a rush, and as you dash out, a car hits you.

It wasn't entirely your fault, but you did dash out without looking, and did dash out whilst the lights were flashing orange.

Do you never take that crossing (or maybe even any crossing) ever again?

The majority of cave-diving accidents stem from ignorance or disregard of cave-diving safety protocols. In this article, the diver seems to be very knowledgeable and aware of the protocols, but there were a few that weren't followed.

The diver's had a very close call, and no doubt recognises some of the issues that caused the accident, and I'm sure is determined to never make those mistakes again.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#48

Post by rrhyne » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

seanc wrote: post #35

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

I am a father and I agree 100% IMO maaaaybe you could be married with no kids and do this ethically. But with kids? You're rolling the dice on a very important promise. I do struggle with what that line of thinking means for soldiers though.

As a father, I agree completely, and think you shouldn't have been down voted, so here's an upvote.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#49

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:06 PM UTC

seanc wrote: post #35

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

I am a father and I agree 100% IMO maaaaybe you could be married with no kids and do this ethically. But with kids? You're rolling the dice on a very important promise. I do struggle with what that line of thinking means for soldiers though.

[deleted]

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#50

Post by Xero » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #36

j9461701 wrote: post #33

I might be speaking out of line, but taking on these kinds of risks with young children at home seems kind of selfish. The fact that he went back into the same cave that nearly killed him only a month later...almost as if to say: "I would rather my kids grow up without a Dad than live without my adrenaline fix" I am neither a father or a cave diver though, so I might be missing a piece of the puzzle. Would either gro…

You can decide that having children doesn't mean you have to sacrifice everything for them. If you greatest joy in life is this, you may choose to take the risk. Children are not an all or nothing proposal.

"Children are not an all or nothing proposal."

I'm not sure I understand this mentality. Why force a life into this existence if you don't do everything in your power to make it as accommodating as you can? Modern life in it of itself will be working against it.