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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#301

Post by brixon »

slantaclaus wrote: post #91
RealityNow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in NYC, and most stores seem to have $5-10 credit card minimums. America needs to admit that it's no longer the bastion of innovation that it once was (I say this as an American. If anyone doesn't believe me, just take a trip to East Asia). Americans are complacent and fine with not having the cutting edge (not to mention our failing infrastructure). I wish there was a way to change this attitude, but it feels…

South Carolina resident here, no credit card minimums.

I have seen it in North Carolina and Florida. Usually with mom & pop shops.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#302

Post by theandrewbailey »

mrkrabo wrote: post #147
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people pay their balance off every month in the USA. Credit card doesn't mean borrowing. The big problem with credit cards in China is fraud: banks like ICBC will put the burden of proof on the card holder when a fraud transaction occurs, rather than the merchant as in the west. I really hate ICBC. Anyways, debit cards work just like QR pay does, just like UnionPay already does. The problem QR codes are…

Why credit cards and not debit cards?

With a credit card, you're spending money that you don't have, but with a debit card, you need money in the account it's connected to.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#303

Post by oh_sigh »

tormeh wrote: post #266
uiri wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the statement as the US system - both at the state and the federal levels - is working the way it was designed to work. Given its growth - in both population and territory - since its founding, that it is still in existence with the same constitution is no small feat.

>that it is still in existence with the same constitution is no small feat I would call that a defeat. The US constitution is clearly past its sell-by date.

Wow, one result you don't like leads you to throw the whole thing out?

If you cook a meal you don't like, do you burn down your kitchen?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#304

Post by lnanek2 »

rsync wrote: post #296
ksec wrote: post #289

Some Perspective and Experience While i was in China. I couldn't set up my WePay in time, so like the Author, I had to use Cash. And from my experience between a Tier 2 City and Tier 1 City like Shanghai, it is actually those Tier 2-3 City refuse to accept cash. They thought Cash were cumbersome. And Shanghai may be more welcoming cash / Credit Cards for variety of reasons ( Likely privacy ). I tried to buy breakfast…

"With QR Code, They "Print" a QR Code and laminated it." Can someone give me an example of what a merchant would encode into the QR Code that would then allow them to receive money ? Is it a URL ?

It's a URL, but just one used to open an app with some data. E.g.: http://iosdevelopertips.com/cocoa/launching-your-own-applica...

And the merchant doesn't know this. Their setup process is typically: Open up WeChat, login, click the plus in the top right corner, pick Money, click receive money...

And of course paying and receiving is much easier once everything is setup.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#305

Post by theandrewbailey »

tormeh wrote: post #266
uiri wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the statement as the US system - both at the state and the federal levels - is working the way it was designed to work. Given its growth - in both population and territory - since its founding, that it is still in existence with the same constitution is no small feat.

>that it is still in existence with the same constitution is no small feat I would call that a defeat. The US constitution is clearly past its sell-by date.

Not necessarily: it proves that its architecture is very scalable, and whoever built it knew what the hell they were doing. Even then, the US Constitution has a mechanism to change itself. It's been used 27 times.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#306

Post by zhte415 »

lnanek2 wrote: post #304
rsync wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With QR Code, They "Print" a QR Code and laminated it." Can someone give me an example of what a merchant would encode into the QR Code that would then allow them to receive money ? Is it a URL ?

It's a URL, but just one used to open an app with some data. E.g.: http://iosdevelopertips.com/cocoa/launching-your-own-applica... And the merchant doesn't know this. Their setup process is typically: Open up WeChat, login, click the plus in the top right corner, pick Money, click receive money... And of course paying and receiving is much easier once everything is setup.

This is correct.

1. Customer scans QR

2. POS operator hits given this is a realtime hit and noone else is hitting this QR at this time.

3. Customer received bill, hits OK. Confirmation sent to both reatailer and customer at the same time. Customer often shows retailer this has been successful. Receipt printed and handed to customer.

4. Customer walks away happy.

The transaction from 1-4 takes less than 2 seconds. Very efficient.

The stumbling of a new customer to get their phone out, activate pay, question if any special offers are in offer however drags this out to a vastly greater amount of time than using cash.

However, the tech UX is sound.

Edit: Live in China. Wish people could use cash as queues are much longer when the 'human factor' is added in/ Perhaps this will fade, but it has already been a few years and sees no fading as retailers add discounts, coupons, to the payment, which leads customers to click around their phone rather than being prepared in advance with discount coupons and cash.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#307

Post by dullgiulio »

smw wrote: post #274
dullgiulio wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some differences behind the scenes. A week ago I was in this restaurant and I had almost no cash (as usual where I live in Northern EU); the restaurant terminals were rejecting debit cards from the two biggest banks in the country. After several attempts, I just paid with my credit card (which is configured to pay immediately from the account, not at end of month) and that worked. That's probably because a…

I think in the US, that type of card is referred to as a 'check card', and is basically a bank debit card with the additional ability to run it as a credit network (usually Visa) transaction with signature instead of PIN entry. Is that similar to what you have?

I am not sure, they both operate with a chip and pin code. I think it really is just a difference on how the banks settle the transactions between themselves.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#308

Post by zhte415 »

usaphp wrote: post #295
zanny wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the cost of slow transactions is not eaten by the payment processor. The store just has to add more checkout lanes or clerks. The payment processor also never gets blamed - if the process is slow, the customer just blames the store.

> the cost of slow transactions is not eaten by payment processor. > if the process is slow the customer just blames the store. If the customer does not like long lines and slow transactions in a store - they will leave, and the processor will see less revenue from fewer transactions because of that

There are only 2 card payment networks of worth and most cutomers have cards from both. They don't care.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#309

Post by zhte415 »

urethrafranklin wrote: post #258
williamle8300 wrote: post #33

No thanks. Cash is king. Money should never be traceable, and you should be able to buy with anonymity.

Cash is already somewhat traceable (what did you think it was numbered for?) and it's illegal to buy some things anonymously, so it's really strange that you believe these things.

Numbering of banknotes is mainly a meta-function, to see how long the banknote survives in the real-world. No idea for USD, but GBP 5 pound notes last a surprisingly short amount of time, less than a few months, before wear-and-tear destroys them.

There is no regulatory tracking of bank note number to who withdraws it. None. An incredible and incredibly pointless mess. ATMs do read them however,for the just-in-case scenario.

In bank robbery stories, sure "A million in used notes" sounds nice, but that's because a net would have been thrown down, or specific attention drawn to a serial, but in most cases, no. The regulatory burden would be far too surreal.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#310

Post by rsync »

lnanek2 wrote: post #304
rsync wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With QR Code, They "Print" a QR Code and laminated it." Can someone give me an example of what a merchant would encode into the QR Code that would then allow them to receive money ? Is it a URL ?

It's a URL, but just one used to open an app with some data. E.g.: http://iosdevelopertips.com/cocoa/launching-your-own-applica... And the merchant doesn't know this. Their setup process is typically: Open up WeChat, login, click the plus in the top right corner, pick Money, click receive money... And of course paying and receiving is much easier once everything is setup.

"It's a URL, but just one used to open an app with some data. E.g.: http://iosdevelopertips.com/cocoa/launching-your-own-applica...

OK, but presumably a very long URL with a lot of hasing/coding in the URL that not only describes the transaction but secures it, correct ?

QR Codes are an open-standard - they are not something that wechat made up - so could you use some other mechanism to transmit that URL ? Could I email the very same URL and expect it to work ?

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