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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#291

Post by de_Selby »

Mikushi wrote: post #275
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough. In china, lots of small-scale businesses lack POS terminals while Chinese banks put the burden of proof in case of fraud on the card user, rather than the merchant as in the west. Using a credit card in china is an absolute PITA. Since returning to the states from china, I've been happily surprised that I can just tap my credi…

> Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough Yeah but no. Come in the UK and you'll see that mobile payments are seeing widespread acceptance. I can go weeks without having to pull my Debit or Credit Card.

Absolutely. This thread seems to be populated with people who think everywhere in "the west" = the USA.

I'm in Ireland and hate carrying change so I use my phone all the time to pay, I only end up going to the ATM ~ once every 2 weeks or so.

Some people working in shops aren't used to paying with phones yet but you just tell them it's the same as contactless card and it works out fine.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#292

Post by mos_basik »

c3833174 wrote: post #220
raesene6 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until recently I'd have agreed with you about much faster, I always found QR codes a bit clunky and slow. However I think the image recognition processes must be improving as the last couple of times I've used them (for TOTP setup) recognition was very fast, < 2 seconds of the camera app. coming on as I was moving the phone into position.

It really depends on the software, I have the obsqr app (based on a native library) on a 600Mhz android phone from 2010 and I get recognition in probably less than 0.5 seconds after pointing it at the code. Meanwhile the whatsapp web code reader on the same device and same qr code takes more than 6 seconds of careful aligning, and even on modern devices there are still some hilariously bad code readers (having to man…

+1 for Obsqr, great app. And I use Talalarmo from the same devs as my daily alarm. Love that team's no frills style.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#293

Post by BeetleB »

MichaelBurge wrote: post #281
matz1 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it can also mean more than half.

I asked a few friends how they use the word, and apparently there are people that use it to mean "nearly all" and people that use it to mean "more than half", and the first group doesn't realize the second group exists. This paper[1] gives a couple interpretations, none of which are as strict as the one I use. I wonder if I mixed up "conversational implicatures" with a heuristic for logical implication. In any case,…

>This paper[1] gives a couple interpretations

If we're talking grammar, then it is "a couple of interpretations".

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#294

Post by phkahler »

thehardsphere wrote: post #237
lostboys67 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but if you hold cash they don't come and take 1% out of your wallet

They don't need to, because they can take the 1% out of your wallet by printing more pieces of paper with dead politicians faces on it.

Inflation affects all kinds of money - including that sitting in a bank account. All forms of electronic payment include rent paid to some company and that's above and beyond currency devaluation.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#295

Post by usaphp »

zanny wrote: post #183
usaphp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The faster the lines are moving - the more transactions per day can a store process, thus more fees for processor. I don't see a logical reason for processors to artificially slow down payment process just for a tiny fee difference, no? plus they theoretically get less chargebacks and fraud activity with chips.

Except the cost of slow transactions is not eaten by the payment processor. The store just has to add more checkout lanes or clerks. The payment processor also never gets blamed - if the process is slow, the customer just blames the store.

> the cost of slow transactions is not eaten by payment processor.

> if the process is slow the customer just blames the store.

If the customer does not like long lines and slow transactions in a store - they will leave, and the processor will see less revenue from fewer transactions because of that

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#296

Post by rsync »

ksec wrote: post #289

Some Perspective and Experience While i was in China. I couldn't set up my WePay in time, so like the Author, I had to use Cash. And from my experience between a Tier 2 City and Tier 1 City like Shanghai, it is actually those Tier 2-3 City refuse to accept cash. They thought Cash were cumbersome. And Shanghai may be more welcoming cash / Credit Cards for variety of reasons ( Likely privacy ). I tried to buy breakfast…

"With QR Code, They "Print" a QR Code and laminated it."

Can someone give me an example of what a merchant would encode into the QR Code that would then allow them to receive money ?

Is it a URL ?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#297

Post by dis-sys »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #242
dis-sys wrote: post #190

Criminals are now targeting those QR codes. They just walk around and put their own QR code stickers on top of the legitimate ones, hoping that future payment will end up in their accounts. What really impress me is that Alipay immediately responded to such reports and agreed to foot the damages. They also started to promote the voice notification feature so street vendors don't have to stop periodically to just chec…

"It is definitely a good example on why capitalism is the best choice in 2017." Until the company becomes too big, and can do whatever they want without losing customers. See various horror stories about Bank of America, Comcast, PayPal, management engines in Intel and AMD chips, 'telemetry' in Windows, etc., for counterexamples.

I actually just realized one potential issue: there are two online payment platforms in China, they are owned by Tencent and Alibaba. If someone piss off both of them, e.g. some business disputes which is not really unheard of, they can choose to just refund all your money left in your account and close it. The consequence is obvious - you would be isolated from a normal life if you live in China.

From that aspect, there are tons to learn from what happened in America.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#298

Post by Veratyr »

tanilama wrote: post #187
RealityNow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in NYC, and most stores seem to have $5-10 credit card minimums. America needs to admit that it's no longer the bastion of innovation that it once was (I say this as an American. If anyone doesn't believe me, just take a trip to East Asia). Americans are complacent and fine with not having the cutting edge (not to mention our failing infrastructure). I wish there was a way to change this attitude, but it feels…

As Chinese, I would say, the scale and speed of China getting rid of cash is truly impressive and makes me proud, but, in US, with credit card and Apple/Android Pay, I am pretty much cashless as well. For me, the achievement of mobile payment is social-economical, that is more about how companies could persuade customers to adapt a new way of doing something than inventing some ground-breaking technology. In case of…

> but, in US, with credit card and Apple/Android Pay, I am pretty much cashless as well

The thing is though is that the US has a habit of getting these things decades after they're introduced.

The US has just started EMV rollouts and it's still the only country that depends on signatures. Most of the developed world has had EMV with a PIN for what, 15 years now?

Contactless payments have been widespread in Australia (home) for at least 5 years and by "widespread", I don't mean a few particular retailers support them, I mean everything from the independent coffee or fish and chip shop down the street to every major supermarket chain, cinema, Starbucks and McDonald's.

The US is just barely keeping itself 5-10 years behind the rest of the world.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#299

Post by Sander_Marechal »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

I think this article hit the nail on the head when it pointed out that being ahead of the curve at one time (with Japan and their advanced flip phones in the early 2000s) can make it harder to adopt the next big advance because what you have is already "good enough". Thus, in the US, I suspect that mobile payments haven't taken off as much because they are only very slightly faster to use than a credit card, as oppos…

Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough. In china, lots of small-scale businesses lack POS terminals while Chinese banks put the burden of proof in case of fraud on the card user, rather than the merchant as in the west. Using a credit card in china is an absolute PITA. Since returning to the states from china, I've been happily surprised that I can just tap my credi…

> Mobile payments haven't taken off in the west because credit cards have worked well enough

USA != the west. Paying by credit card is pretty uncommon in large parts of Europe. Most stores I frequent don't even accept credit cards. But debit cards with pin&chip and now wireless NFC pin&chip is very popular.

I hardly ever use cash, but the only reason I have a credit cards is for some US webshops.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#300

Post by nopzor »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #264
urethrafranklin wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical minimum credit charge is 30 cents plus a percentage of the gross.

These are very high interchange numbers. I think it was bad like that in the past, but not today.

interchange can be pretty high, especially for premium reward cards. what changed recently was interchange on debit cards (which used to be much higher in the US). this is why debit issuers no longer offer any real sort of "points" or cashback on debit. and why debit and cash users essentially subsidize credit card users in the US
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