Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

Post by yladiz » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 10:27 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #346

numair wrote: post #18

Finally, people are beginning to realize the insanity of this entire PATENTS file situation! When I first brought up how misguided people were for embracing React and projects with this license, I was downvoted to hell on HN. But really, everyone, THINK ABOUT IT. This is a company that glorifies and celebrates IP theft from others, and lionizes their employees who successfully clone others’ projects. They’ve built th…

If we can just remove emotion for a little bit, and coldly apply law and the terms of the license to fact, the picture is really not so dire. - As stated in the standard BSD 3 clause, you're more or less licensed to do whatever you want with the software. - The above doesn't give you a patent grant (at least not an explicit one), so Facebook also grants you a license to use any patents they have associated with the s…

Post by LoSboccacc » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 12:07 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #332

reboog711 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My most recent 'big' fortune 500 company put me under very strict legal terms regarding what type of software I was allowed to use. Any code I didn't write 100% myself had to be approved by legal before it could be used in software I wrote for them. No, seriously, that is what the contract said. In reality, the bulk of developers used whatever they wanted with no consideration. I assume other contractors were under s…

If the other developers did so without asking formal permission, then if the company was sued, they'll just pass it on to the developer. The happy medium that I've found is to provide a list of acceptable licenses and let lead engineers audit that software to be included obey them.

Post by khuey » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 1:01 PM UTC

merijnv wrote: post #347

khuey wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're right that "BSD+patent"+"revoked patent grant because you sued Facebook over another patent" is pretty much the same as just BSD from the start. Licensing software you know you have patents on under BSD only with no patent grant would be pretty awful, of course. If Facebook wanted to be the good guys here they would license under Apache 2.0 or write their own symmetric patent grant. They already relicense…

> "BSD+patent"+"revoked patent grant because you sued Facebook over another patent" is pretty much the same as just BSD from the start. Not really. If you have BSD with no patent grants you can at least argue that there's an implicit patent grant. If there's an explicit patent grant which you violated/got terminated that defence is clearly not going to fly.

Post by captainmuon » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 1:10 PM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #342

captainmuon wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the spirit is that patents are not legitimate. Suing for patent infringement is not considered exercising a legal right, it's considered being a dick and vandalizing someones property. So this is not to be read like a contract between to businesses, but like a truce. It might as well say "we agree to not destroy your business using dirty tricks if you don't attempt the same". Of course, opinions on that are d…

> Suing for patent infringement is not considered exercising a legal right, it's considered being a dick and vandalizing someones property. So this is not to be read like a contract between to businesses, but like a truce. This is an oversimplification. There are plenty of mum and dad inventors who would get destroyed by large companies but for relying on patent protection for their life's work.

Post by free_everybody » Mon, Jul 17, 2017, 1:57 PM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #97

cma wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the patent grant is not fully reciprocal. As I understand it: To use React, you give Facebook permission to use any of your software patents (edit: all patents, even on a new jet engine) throughout your whole company. Facebook gives you permission to use only the software patents necessary for React. If your company sues Facebook over an unrelated software patent (edit: as above, any patent), your React license…

My personal interpretation of this is that hypothetically you are likely to value your own patent(s) more than you value the time to re-write your application with something other than React. So if you need to sue Facebook, factor in that you’ll need a re-write as well. My professional opinion is that if you use React and are concerned about this, talk to your attorney.