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In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

nytimes.com

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Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#161

Post by nopzor »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #136
HeavenFox wrote: post #24

Born in China and moved to U.S. since college. In my observation, there are several reason for the boom in mobile payment in China that makes it hard to replicate. - Low transaction fee & minimal barrier. For merchants taking WeChat pay, the transaction fee seems to be a flat 0.6%, compared to 2%-3% in the U.S. For the food cart vendors and similar one man shops, they just use the person-to-person payment feature (li…

> For merchants taking WeChat pay, the transaction fee seems to be a flat 0.6%, compared to 2%-3% in the U.S. Where the heck is 3% even allowed in the USA? > However, it's quite difficult to argue that taking out the phone, unlock it, open the app and show the QR code is easier than using a card in the western world. Tapping the card to the NFC terminal is super easy. You don't even need to take your card out of the…

What do you mean where the heck is 3 percent even allowed? How do you think banks in the USA are issuing 2 percent cash back credit cards? Who do you think is paying for that?

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#162

Post by aylmao »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #145
sangnoir wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many countries have an even better technology in NFC contact NFC isn't "better technology", just different to QR code. NFC also handles 1 payer at a time whereas QR can handle multiple, in parallel depending on the physical display size.

NFC is better than QR codes in many many many ways. You don't have to line up the codes with the phones, paying is much faster, and the "1 payer at a time" limitation is actually the 99.9% use case for payments.

QR requires pointing, but NFC requires proximity; I can't imagine a street musician using NFC.

NFC requires special equipment. QRs can be displayed on screens and printed on paper which makes them incredibly more accessible and far-reaching.

NFC is invisible, which looks better IMO that a block of pixels with the occasional ill-fitting logo in the center. But tbh at the end of the day they are doing the same thing, the big difference being one is using some new sensors and electromagnetic frequencies to do the job, while the other is using visible light and a sensor that is installed on every phone in the world and everyone is familiar with already.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#163

Post by zanny »

coliveira wrote: post #152
thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

> we have democracy in politics The last events in the US election system have cast a long shadow of doubt on this statement.

Yeah, anecdotal evidence isn't winning an argument. We got the study out of Princeton in 2014 that showed, with evidence, how US officials do not act in the will of the people[1]. That is what you talk about when you discuss the crumbling of democracy in the US, not trivialities like how the electoral college is intentionally not an institute for popular majorities to always win (and if that would be ones sole cause of doubt... where were they in 2000?). It can't be about how the nomination process in political parties doesn't reflect the will of the people - because of course they don't, the parties are private entities and will nominate whoever their leadership wants. Those things are obvious. If the American people ever wanted to solve them, they would fight for it.

But having concrete evidence that those who you "vote" for consider your desires nil? Very valuable when discussing how undemocratic the US is.

[1]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#164

Post by DrScump »

RealityNow wrote: post #73
thablackbull wrote: post #21

I think this is a good illustration of the different approach in how China and America approach the consumer economics space. In America, there is a very heavy reliance on "trickle down". We create a "best-in-class", "top-of-the-line" product that only the elite and wealthy can buy into. These people then set the tone of how it will develop in the future. The first mover also tries to do everything in their power to…

I live in NYC, and most stores seem to have $5-10 credit card minimums. America needs to admit that it's no longer the bastion of innovation that it once was (I say this as an American. If anyone doesn't believe me, just take a trip to East Asia). Americans are complacent and fine with not having the cutting edge (not to mention our failing infrastructure). I wish there was a way to change this attitude, but it feels…

Generally (and excluding AmEx), requiring minimum purchases is a violation of the merchant-processor agreement.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#165

Post by [deleted] »

csydas wrote: post #87
nickrio wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Chinese & living China, I shopping almost only with credit cards and cash for privacy consideration. However, I don't think credit cards in China are as popular as it is in the USA. I could guess most Chinese people don't have any credit card. Chinese traditional culture encourages saving, not loaning. And taking small loans is exactly how credit cards works. So maybe that's why people here don't like credit ca…

Maybe the data doesn't back this, but as a US citizen I find that most of the time when people refer to credit cards they're meaning their Bank card, which often acts as whatever you define it as at the terminal or it has a default status for quick pay options. There are many people that are happy to just pull out the credit card to buy beyond their means but a lot of the time people are using a card backed directly…

[deleted]

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#166

Post by [deleted] »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133
svckr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport…

When I lived to Switzerland, I was pretty surprised my debit card (Maestro) couldn't work on credit card networks (Master Card, heck, the logos looked almost the same!). I'm surprised Germany is so far behind switzerland though, I mean, even when I lived there 10 years ago I could use my debit card via chip in a kiosk and have my train ticket very quickly. I don't think standard Beijing city buses take wepay yet. You…

[deleted]

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#167

Post by ralfd »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #133
svckr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany we have a clear distinction between credit- and debit cards. And I guess the culture leans more toward the "saving not loaning" model nickrio describes. So for me it is a conscious decision wether I pay with my bank account or credit. Unlike China however, adoption of digital, low-barrier payments is extremely low here. I mean, hell, we're mostly buying paper bus tickets, while local public transport…

When I lived to Switzerland, I was pretty surprised my debit card (Maestro) couldn't work on credit card networks (Master Card, heck, the logos looked almost the same!). I'm surprised Germany is so far behind switzerland though, I mean, even when I lived there 10 years ago I could use my debit card via chip in a kiosk and have my train ticket very quickly. I don't think standard Beijing city buses take wepay yet. You…

What the parent meant is that you get a paper ticket, even if you pay per card at an automated kiosk.

Online-QR-code-tickets bought per Smartphone are now common too though.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#168

Post by nopzor »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #135
RealityNow wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in NYC, and most stores seem to have $5-10 credit card minimums. America needs to admit that it's no longer the bastion of innovation that it once was (I say this as an American. If anyone doesn't believe me, just take a trip to East Asia). Americans are complacent and fine with not having the cutting edge (not to mention our failing infrastructure). I wish there was a way to change this attitude, but it feels…

Went to the donut shop, got a $1.50 donut with a credit card, no minimums here in LA. This NYC place sounds fairly strange. I lived in Beijing for 9 years. It changed much since then, but the tech brought out was solving mostly local problems with local solutions. When I started living there, I used to pay for rent by withdrawing 20K or so RMB from the ATM machine (in 100 bills), loading it into a bag, then giving it…

yeah, and Walgreens will allow you to buy a 40 cent pack of gum with a credit card. They are surely losing money on that transaction. Your donut shop is losing over 30% when they let you buy a single donut for 1.50$ with your card. That's why sane merchants (often independent) will have a minimum. This isn't a NYC specific thing at all.

Re: In Urban China, Cash Is Rapidly Becoming Obsolete

#170

Post by zanny »

slackingoff2017 wrote: post #82
monocasa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what was said about Germany in the 1880s, and Japanese goods in the 1960s. It's the normal progression of truly developing economies.

Ignoring all copyright law? We're not talking about stuff that is cheaper equivalents which I'm fine with. The problem with China is counterfeiting brands. Say I make a charger and want people to think it's high quality. To do this, I spend 90% of effort on making it look exactly like an Apple charger. It even works, kind of, maybe once. This is a straight up scam, and the kind of crap that people knock China for. An…

Why do you blame the Chinese government when, if you want to prevent scam devices from entering your market, you should have your own customs and trade inspectors turn away counterfeit merchandise? The Us lets counterfeit products in. Likewise, if the Chinese government doesn't want to obey US law involving copyright or trademark, which is not an international policy, it is simply the law of the US, that is entirely their sovereign right to.

It would also, then, be the US' right to negotiate trade agreements knowing that.

The Chinese government does some fucked up shit, but not being under the foot of US global intellectual imperialism is not them being the villains, its the US for trying to force a global framework of IP, and especially US' idea of permanent copyright, on everyone else.

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