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Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

issues.apache.org

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Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#111

Post by jorgemf »

mikekchar wrote: post #29
twunde wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook has reserved its rights with their license and they can decide to enforce it at any time. Personal projects should be ok, but commercial projects should involve a discussion with legal. If the company thinks it's possible that they end up in a lawsuit with FB, it won't be allowed. For those who get caught unawares, they will have to move off react if possible, or seriously consider settling.

For personal projects, my interest here is in whether or not the patents license is compatible with other free software licenses (say GPLV3). That might be a consideration for some people.

As far as I understood It is not compatible with other licenses, that is why the apache foundation doesn't allow it.

(But don't ask me which licenses, I have no idea)

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#112

Post by MichaelBurge »

khuey wrote: post #68
carussell wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I understand it: To use React, you give Facebook permission to use any of your software patents throughout your whole company. That is, on its face, absolutely untrue. Nowhere in the React patent terms does it specify that you grant Facebook rights to use your patents--not even to ones related to React. That's something that isn't in the React terms, nor does it seem to show up in any legal analyses published on…

It maybe "on its face absolutely untrue" but it is true in practice. If Facebook infringes your patent and you sue them to enforce you lose the rights to use any patents React requires. So while you're not required to grant Facebook rights to use your patents, you are required not to enforce your rights relating to your patents against Facebook.

A company the size of Facebook can't really get away with that scheme even if it were intentional. For one thing, I can sell the patent to a troll and let them do my dirty work. Or a company could buy you solely to get fuel to sue Facebook over.

If Zuckerberg signs a paper with the wrong title, there's a troll lawsuit the next day. So if you make a habit of "in practice" strongarming people, you can easily slip up and have a huge headache on your hands.

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#113

Post by learc83 »

If Facebook has patents that cover React functionality. They almost certainly cover parts of other JavaScript frameworks. React is well executed, but it's conceptually simple.

I don't think avoiding React makes you any safer. You don't know how broadly Facebook or the courts will interpret their patents.

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#114

Post by [deleted] »

cma wrote: post #91
ori_b wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS Now where does it say that? The way I read it, so long as you don't sue Facebook, you have a patent grant. If you believe people when they say that their patent portfolios are purely defensive, there is no problem. On the other hand, being the aggressor in a patent lawsuit loses you the patent grant. This seems sane enough to me. The normal state of affairs is com…

> Now where does it say that? [...] If you believe people when they say that their patent portfolios are purely defensive, there is no problem. Where does it say what? Which part of my post are you taking issue with, because I would love to correct anything. What it certainly doesn't say is that Facebook's patent portfolio is non-aggressive. And when, outside of this, has Facebook said that about their entire portfol…

[deleted]

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#115

Post by morecoffee »

numair wrote: post #18

Finally, people are beginning to realize the insanity of this entire PATENTS file situation! When I first brought up how misguided people were for embracing React and projects with this license, I was downvoted to hell on HN. But really, everyone, THINK ABOUT IT. This is a company that glorifies and celebrates IP theft from others, and lionizes their employees who successfully clone others’ projects. They’ve built th…

Re Google: You are mistaken. A big open source project by Google, gRPC, recently switched from BSD+Patents to Apache 2.0.

  https://github.com/grpc/grpc/pull/11432
  https://github.com/grpc/grpc-java/pull/3047
  https://github.com/grpc/grpc-go/pull/1290

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#116

Post by colejohnson66 »

Xeoncross wrote: post #3

> Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product? > No. > Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I sue Facebook for something other than patent infringement? > No. https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556 Consider re-licensing to AL v2.0: https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191

> The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, if you (or any of your subsidiaries, corporate affiliates or agents) initiate directly or indirectly, or take a direct financial interest in, any Patent Assertion: (i) against Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, (ii) against any party if such Patent Assertion arises in whole or in part from any software, technology, product or service of Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, or (iii) against any party relating to the Software. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates files a lawsuit alleging patent infringement against you in the first instance, and you respond by filing a patent infringement counterclaim in that lawsuit against that party that is unrelated to the Software, the license granted hereunder will not terminate under section (i) of this paragraph due to such counterclaim.

https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/master/PATENTS

The actual license text is what matters, not what some intern wrote on a page.

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#117

Post by afro88 »

Lazare wrote: post #67
tomelders wrote: post #45

Ok. With the BSD + patent grant Do you have a license to use Facebook's patents? Yes. Do you have a license to use Facebooks patents if Facebook brings a patent case against you? Yes. Do you have a license to use Facebooks patents if you bring a patent case against us? No. If you do not have a patent grant, can you still use React? YES! If you're going to down vote this, please say why. This is how I interpret the li…

No, you're quite right. The license to use React is governed by the BSD license, and it's not terminated if you end up suing Facebook over their violation of you VR patents or whatever. Edit: Downvoted for a factual answer? There's a host of sources confirming by answer as correct, including Facebook's official FAQ on React licensing[0]. Q: "Does termination of the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents…

Apologies for the dumb question, but what rights do you lose if the patent license is terminated?

I mean, if you can use the software without the patent license, what is the patent license giving you?

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#119

Post by lysium »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #98
snarfy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I didn't read the fine print. I've been having fun playing around with it. I assumed the license was OK considering its popularity.

"I assumed the license was OK considering its popularity." I would have too. I'm getting into Clojure(Script) where React(Native) seems to be a popular choice for UI. I haven't touched it yet. I hope there's a good alternative when I get around to it because I really like Clojure but I never wanted to rely on anything made by Facebook.

There is Reacl. https://github.com/active-group/reacl

Re: Apache Foundation disallows use of the Facebook “BSD+Patent” license

#120

Post by Lazare »

cma wrote: post #96
Lazare wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without ceding your license to use React. Ceding your license to use any patents Facebook may or may not have on React. There's a difference.

You can't legally use React without a patents license. The difference between the patents grant and the copyright license is mostly in the timeframe they cover (20 years for patents, 100+ years or whatever for copyright).

> You can't legally use React without a patents license.

I'll send you US$50 if you can find ANY evidence this is true in the US, UK, Aus, or Canada. :)

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