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Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

independent.co.uk

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Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#11

Post by castle-bravo »

louithethrid wrote: post #6

There will be the usual walk through the park of unusable vectors to solve this. The only thing that could stop this is direct action - meaning, editing organisms to resist humanity. Making trees fireproof, equipping animals with diseases. The only wulf to hold back man, is another man.

Have you read Margaret Atwood's MaddAddam trilogy? It's one of my all-time favourite works of science fiction.

Human beings have the (rarely used) capacity to improve the quality and usability of our surroundings. If at some point in the future, we should collectively decide to rehabilitate this planet of ours, mutant poisonous kudzu and HIV-reservoir mosquitoes will not make the work any easier.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#12

Post by whyenot »

senorjazz wrote: post #8
the_absurdist wrote: post #3

Take a commercial flight where you have a chance to look down on the rainforest in Brazil or Peru. You'll be absolutely astonished and sickened at how much is already gone.

The same for Europe, although it was all cut down longer ago. The same of parts of the US. The trees and land are a resource for these countries with vast numbers living in poverty. Telling them they cannot use these resources just isn't going to work. If we non-Amazon countries want them to stop deforestation, we have to dig into our pockets. But we we don't. Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for o…

> Ecuador tried it, requesting funds for not drilling for oil.

Another perspective would be that they attempted to blackmail the rest of the world by threatening to open Yasuni National Park to drilling, a World Heritage Site, home to uncontacted Waorani people, and one of the last locations with large land mammals left in the western Amazon.

I spent a lot of time in the park and in Block 16, an area to the west that was opened to drilling in the 1990s. There are no easy solutions, just a lot of gray, corruption, and suffering. The whole no drilling thing was a complete charade. They were already building the roads.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#15

Post by ufo »

The article didn't talk about the political context: the current president is facing corruption charges and a threat of impeachment and is buying support from congress by opening the government coffers (or what remains of it) and ceding to various lobbying groups.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#16

Post by microcolonel »

spodek wrote: post #10

What responsibility does a typical reader of HN have? What can a reader do?

Brazil is failing for roughly the same reasons as most of the rest of South America: excesses of state power, which are too attractive for business to pass up.

The economy is depressed by excessive policy, the people have bigger problems than the destruction of the Amazon. In addition, because the government owns the woodland, there's basically no reason to replant or maintain, which means that if you want lumber you have to go into old growth forest.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#17

Post by microcolonel »

noddy1 wrote: post #13

sadly capitalism seems to be an incredibly effective and efficient way to completely destroy the rainforests. there does not seem to be any solution.

Capitalism saved the forests in North America, Brazil has a lot of state power and the corruption that comes with it. If the people of Brazil value the rainforest at all, it is a lower priority than whatever they are dealing with in their day to day life.

In North America, there is more forest cover than there was 200 years ago, thanks to private ownership and maintenance of woodlands.

Because of how productive these private woodlands are, there's largely no reason to cut down old growth forest.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#18

Post by rmellow »

microcolonel wrote: post #17
noddy1 wrote: post #13

sadly capitalism seems to be an incredibly effective and efficient way to completely destroy the rainforests. there does not seem to be any solution.

Capitalism saved the forests in North America, Brazil has a lot of state power and the corruption that comes with it. If the people of Brazil value the rainforest at all, it is a lower priority than whatever they are dealing with in their day to day life. In North America, there is more forest cover than there was 200 years ago, thanks to private ownership and maintenance of woodlands. Because of how productive these…

"If the people of Brazil value the rainforest at all, it is a lower priority than whatever they are dealing with in their day to day life."

You assume Brazilians are represented by their government. In theory, yes. In theory.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#19

Post by microcolonel »

rmellow wrote: post #18
microcolonel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism saved the forests in North America, Brazil has a lot of state power and the corruption that comes with it. If the people of Brazil value the rainforest at all, it is a lower priority than whatever they are dealing with in their day to day life. In North America, there is more forest cover than there was 200 years ago, thanks to private ownership and maintenance of woodlands. Because of how productive these…

"If the people of Brazil value the rainforest at all, it is a lower priority than whatever they are dealing with in their day to day life." You assume Brazilians are represented by their government. In theory, yes. In theory.

No, I'm saying that if they're going to fight for anything in their government, it's not going to be this first.

Re: Brazil to open 860K acres of protected Amazon rainforest to logging, mining, etc

#20

Post by maxerickson »

microcolonel wrote: post #17
noddy1 wrote: post #13

sadly capitalism seems to be an incredibly effective and efficient way to completely destroy the rainforests. there does not seem to be any solution.

Capitalism saved the forests in North America, Brazil has a lot of state power and the corruption that comes with it. If the people of Brazil value the rainforest at all, it is a lower priority than whatever they are dealing with in their day to day life. In North America, there is more forest cover than there was 200 years ago, thanks to private ownership and maintenance of woodlands. Because of how productive these…

There's barely any old growth forest left to cut in the US.
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