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Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

reuters.com

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Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#91

Post by amelius »

wildmusings wrote: post #77

If you view human beings as perfectly rational machines then dress codes make no sense, but that's not what we are. Dressing formally puts you in a different frame of mind. It reminds you that your work is serious and that different standards apply to how you act and talk than in your casual personal life. If you dress to work the way you'd show up to a dive bar, then you're that much closer to behaving like you do a…

> Dressing formally puts you in a different frame of mind.

Actually, it makes me feel like I'm talking to a sales person. It is as if dressing up is used to conceal something about the intentions or shortcomings of the person. I probably don't explain it in the right way, but that is more or less the feeling it evokes.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#92

Post by gaius »

sametmax wrote: post #89
gaius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each othe…

It makes sense in the military, since as an institution it requires its individual members to have much less freedom and autonomy. But if a company needs to use technics from the military, something is wrong. Life is not war.

The word "company" itself is military in origin, Latin "companio", soldiers who lived and ate together in a mess/barracks. In the modern day armies still use the term, several platoons make a company, several companies make a battalion.

Schools and sports teams also have uniforms, if that helps set your mind at ease...

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#93

Post by sametmax »

jackmott wrote: post #16
gaius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman Sachs has always had a ridiculously antiquated dress code for people who will never come within fifty feet of a client. When I was much younger I didn't understand the concept of people who never had to deal with clients having a dress code but now I sorta do: the company is trying to create or promote the concept that everyone in the company is a member of the same team and have more in common with each othe…

When you attain a certain level of enlightenment and become aware of the mind hacks being employed by the powers that be, well then you can no longer stand them. Or, you chose to take part of them and use as leverage to achieve your goals I Suppose.

Those are not contradictory. You can choose to live most of your life so that you get as much freedom as you can and is important to you. But also use your knowledge as tools to take advantage of your environment.

Too many people makes it about conformism or morality. But really it's giving too much credit to it: we are just making animal behavior very sophisticated. It's no use to blame or get angry, or it's good to just do like everyone else. Just make the best of it, it's the reality you live in. And if you want to change it, you need to see it for what it is anyway so starting by that is always a good step.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#94

Post by somethingwitty1 »

sbov wrote: post #50
drcross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a minority view, I used to have to wear suits for work and its a pain making considerations for them.

I've only ever done tshirt and jeans stuff. I couldn't imagine wearing a suit every day, but it might be fun to have a "dress up Fridays". Ideally, anyone could wear whatever they want whenever they want. In practice, it doesn't seem to work out this way, even at the tshirts and jeans companies.

Bunch of the teams I've worked with over the years have had "formal fridays". I can confirm it was a fun tradition.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#95

Post by sametmax »

gaius wrote: post #92
sametmax wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense in the military, since as an institution it requires its individual members to have much less freedom and autonomy. But if a company needs to use technics from the military, something is wrong. Life is not war.

The word "company" itself is military in origin, Latin "companio", soldiers who lived and ate together in a mess/barracks. In the modern day armies still use the term, several platoons make a company, several companies make a battalion. Schools and sports teams also have uniforms, if that helps set your mind at ease...

I don't think it's sane to mix linguistic origin and social aspirations, especially when it's about comparing the civil and military life.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#96

Post by superwayne »

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #76
wink wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not associated with them, but this would finallz be a reason to buy one of those awesome suits: https://www.opposuits.com/suits.html

I bought one and have been nothing but satisfied!

Funny enough, I do own one of their orange suits. The quality is really shitty, though, and they are cut for surprisingly tall and skinny people.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#97

Post by gaius »

wildmusings wrote: post #77

If you view human beings as perfectly rational machines then dress codes make no sense, but that's not what we are. Dressing formally puts you in a different frame of mind. It reminds you that your work is serious and that different standards apply to how you act and talk than in your casual personal life. If you dress to work the way you'd show up to a dive bar, then you're that much closer to behaving like you do a…

But when the elites adopt casual dress in their professional lives, what is left are much more subtle and hard-to-adopt class signifiers: manners of speaking, interests, childhood experiences, travel, etc

The NYT had an article on this recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/how-we-are-ruinin...

I took a friend with only a high school degree to lunch. Insensitively, I led her into a gourmet sandwich shop. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up as she was confronted with sandwiches named “Padrino” and “Pomodoro” and ingredients like soppressata, capicollo and a striata baguette. I quickly asked her if she wanted to go somewhere else and she anxiously nodded yes and we ate Mexican.

American upper-middle-class culture (where the opportunities are) is now laced with cultural signifiers that are completely illegible unless you happen to have grown up in this class.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#98

Post by gambiting »

qq66 wrote: post #61
ashark wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Cialdini's Influence is to be believed, everyone says they don't treat people wearing (or driving) nice stuff better, but subjecting this to scientific scrutiny reveals that they overwhelmingly and significantly do . If that's true then dressing well is pretty damn rational in general, and especially if money's on the line.

As an Indian immigrant to Minnesota in the 1970s, my dad adopted a habit of ALWAYS wearing a suit. This gave him the benefit of the doubt in a lot of interactions where he wouldn't have otherwise had it. He kept up that habit for a long time and wore a suit to parent teacher conferences, my 4th grade violin "concert," etc. It most certainly got him a deference from others and did its job admirably. He never got OK wi…

That's something I got from my dad as well - dress for the job you want,not the one you have. I also found that dressing well fixes at least some of the age discrimination you face as a young person, you get treated much better while wearing a suit and a tie than when just wearing a t-shirt or a plain shirt.

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#99

Post by gaius »

Cieplak wrote: post #6

Serge Aleynikov, you're awesome and everyone here loves you. Thanks for all your hard work and open source contributions. https://github.com/saleyn

I did a double-take at https://github.com/saleyn/secdb surely it can't be... (it's not)

Re: Goldman Sachs relaxes dress code for techs in fight for talent

#100

Post by jacquesm »

wildmusings wrote: post #77

If you view human beings as perfectly rational machines then dress codes make no sense, but that's not what we are. Dressing formally puts you in a different frame of mind. It reminds you that your work is serious and that different standards apply to how you act and talk than in your casual personal life. If you dress to work the way you'd show up to a dive bar, then you're that much closer to behaving like you do a…

Or, maybe we could just judge employees by whether they get the job done or not instead of how they dress up.

I've employed plenty of people, if anything those who were overly busy with how they looked tended to under-perform and used their dress as a way of compensation.

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