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I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

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Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#141

Post by emanreus »

yurofish wrote: post #5
TokenDiversity wrote: post #3

I'm surprised China gets away with so much! They recently banned kids from being named Mohammad. And had Imams dance. I wish our war-mongering republicans would switch their attention to countries that really violate human rights. EDIT: Of course they do much worse, I was pointing to the fact that not a peep was heard on Fox or CNN.

Not sure banning kids from being named a certain name really compares to the actual human rights violations at place in China...

Denmark, Sweden, Germany, France, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Iceland, and others all practice banning certain baby names. It's just that when China does it it's in the news.

In Iceland, if the name is not on the National Registry's list of approved names parents first have to get approval of the name with Icelandic Naming Committee. About 50% of submitted names get rejected. For example Zoe, Harriet, Duncan, Ludwig... all violate naming requirements and are not allowed.

Some countries ban only names that would be degrading to children like naming them after product names or outright insults like Anus or gibberish names like random string. Others have ban rules based on politics, religion, terrorism, celebreties and so on. You can't name child Binyamin and Linda in Saudi Arabia, Osama Bin Laden and Adolf Hitler in Germany, Elvis in Sweden, Rambo in Mexico, Jimmy in Portugal, Lucifer in New Zealand and so on.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#142

Post by yurofish »

DanBC wrote: post #129
yurofish wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is outrageous. You cannot put any limits on free speech in a free society. The people should monitor their own behavior, not the state.

> You cannot put any limits on free speech in a free society But that doesn't exist anywhere in the world. The closest is the US, but even their extremist version of freedom of speech has government imposed limits.

Well right, we strive to do the best we can. Threat of harm is obviously limited due to the implication of action. I was more referring to the exchange of ideas between people, which should never be restricted.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#143

Post by seanmcdirmid »

foldr wrote: post #82
mattmanser wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fix what? Your government is the one telling you it's broken. Your idea of US democracy has been spoon fed to you by your government. You're throwing stones from a greenhouse. While US democracy isnt a particularly good form as it puts too much power in the executive branch, it's overly partisan and two-party, there's nothing fundamentally broken about it. There's disadvantages to proportional representation, which w…

I think you'll find that it's not only Chinese people who find it a little difficult to take the US democratic process all that seriously these days. It doesn't take reams of government propaganda to make Donald Trump look like a buffoon, or the people who voted for him look deeply misguided.

It does take reams of propaganda to deflect on how America doesn't overwhelmingly love their dear leader, or how the press can be allowed to openly criticize him. Imagine if Xi had such a low approval rating, or if such an approval rating was even allowed to be measured.

I would claim that someone like Trump shows us just how robust western democracy really is (if we survive him, of course!).

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#144

Post by seanmcdirmid »

colordrops wrote: post #35
23lk4jj4j2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who visits China almost every year, and has spent quite a lot of time there including for study please consider what I'm going to say not as a criticism, but an attempt to help you understand how your words will likely be received. You haven't clarified any facts, you've just made two statements of opinion without any supporting evidence or greater explanation.

As someone who lived in china for 9 years, and married a Chinese woman, perhaps you could recognize that you might live in a very specific bubble in a culture very different from China, and that the perspective is so different that reaching out and trying to understand this person's world view might be more productive than tritely dismissing the comment on technicalities. I hate China's government and the way they op…

As someone who also lived in China for 9 years and married a Chinese woman...well...really that doesn't make me an expert on anything.

But grandparent's post genuinely just presented two opinions without elaboration. It could have come from a westerner and it would downvoted, because it just isn't a high quality comment (though definitely not an offensive one either).

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#145

Post by seanmcdirmid »

coolsdude2282 wrote: post #93
redial wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken? > Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me. Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you?

>Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken? In America we have helpful groups like Southern Poverty Law Center which direct us to which ideas are bad speech that shouldn't be allowed. Maybe China should follow our example and privatize their speech curatorship police, then they would be more free.

You are free to disregard the southern poverty law center if you'd like, and the last time I checked, they can't throw you in jail.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#146

Post by m0skit0 »

factsaresacred wrote: post #101
sametmax wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have a generalized cancer, you just have a small tumor. All is good.

You're very confused. Look at this chart: http://images.rcp.realclearpolitics.com/379824_5_.png Poverty is the cancer. Capitalism (more specifically, wealth-creating economic growth) is the cure. Don't bemoan the treatment because it's not perfect.

Can you show the chart before 1980?

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#147

Post by kristofferR »

narrator wrote: post #116
gentro wrote: post #14

You ever get the feeling this Nobel Prize and the western media's fawning coverage of Liu Xiaobo is really just about westerners making themselves feel better? China will get democracy one day. It will be because a large swath of Chinese people want it. Although there have been some high profile dissidents in China over the last 30 years, including Liu Xiaobo and the 1989 students, most Chinese are probably not ready…

This assumes that Chinese will want to be more like the west. Maybe this would have been true when China was economically underdeveloped, but as living standards improve they might care less what outsiders think and instead think they have something better. There's too much "White Man's Burden" ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden ) thinking going on here.

This idea - that democracy and freedom of thought/speech are Western values - is incredibly dangerous and needs to die.

Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc aren't Western countries.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#148

Post by foldr »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #143
foldr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that it's not only Chinese people who find it a little difficult to take the US democratic process all that seriously these days. It doesn't take reams of government propaganda to make Donald Trump look like a buffoon, or the people who voted for him look deeply misguided.

It does take reams of propaganda to deflect on how America doesn't overwhelmingly love their dear leader, or how the press can be allowed to openly criticize him. Imagine if Xi had such a low approval rating, or if such an approval rating was even allowed to be measured. I would claim that someone like Trump shows us just how robust western democracy really is (if we survive him, of course!).

>It does take reams of propaganda to deflect on how America doesn't overwhelmingly love their dear leader

Does Chinese propaganda deflect on this? I can only check their English language media, but they don't exactly seem to be trying to keep it a secret:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2017-01/20/content_2801...

>I would claim that someone like Trump shows us just how robust western democracy really is (if we survive him, of course!).

You would claim that because you already believe in democracy in principle. The point is that the current US administration does little to make democracy attractive to people who aren't already in favor of democracy.

Also, the "if we survive him" part clearly contradicts the claim of robustness.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#149

Post by foldr »

jackvalentine wrote: post #132
dis-sys wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted my comments above because you are blindly defending Liu's repressive comments without providing any 3rd party proof that can be publicly verified. For your concerns regarding my post above, maybe you can start to back up your claims by providing some proof? For example, when you painted Liu's "China should be colonized by the west for 300 years" comments as some so called "misunderstanding", can you be more…

> I posted my comments above because you are blindly defending Liu's repressive comments without providing any 3rd party proof that can be publicly verified. I'm not defending them. I'm questioning the interpretation of the quote posted which doesn't imply should . There is a difference and I can be swayed either way. > when you painted Liu's "China should be colonized by the west for 300 years" comments as some so c…

Check the rest of the thread. A number of people have indicated that there isn't much doubt about the interpretation of Liu's comments. You aren't contributing anything to the discussion by continuing to ask a question that's already been answered by a number of native Chinese speakers.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#150

Post by tannhauser23 »

theseadroid wrote: post #17
TokenDiversity wrote: post #3

I'm surprised China gets away with so much! They recently banned kids from being named Mohammad. And had Imams dance. I wish our war-mongering republicans would switch their attention to countries that really violate human rights. EDIT: Of course they do much worse, I was pointing to the fact that not a peep was heard on Fox or CNN.

Here's one suggestion from a Chinese perspective: Can you guys fix your democracy first? If you can't set a good example on how good democracy can be, then there's no incentives for any other countries to follow. You realize that US influence can never achieve anything without the citizens of China agree with it right? Like now majority of Chinese think your political system is a joke. And you know what? The majority…

Haha, of course a shill for the Chinese government shows up. I'll take my imperfect, loud, rude, dysfunctional American democracy over your Chinese dictatorship any day. At least here, I can speak out against the government, join a protest, or hell, form an opposition party without having to worry that I'll be locked in a 're-education camp'. Go back to the hole you crawled out of.
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