Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

nobelprize.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 234 posts

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#111

Post by kartan »

factsaresacred wrote: post #101
sametmax wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have a generalized cancer, you just have a small tumor. All is good.

You're very confused. Look at this chart: http://images.rcp.realclearpolitics.com/379824_5_.png Poverty is the cancer. Capitalism (more specifically, wealth-creating economic growth) is the cure. Don't bemoan the treatment because it's not perfect.

> Capitalism (more specifically, wealth-creating economic growth) is the cure.

The problem usually is what people mean by "capitalism". In the last decades, too much people equate neoliberalism to capitalism. They are completely different, as neoliberalism is closer to corporativism and fascism than actual capitalism (the state needs to spy you, wealth redistribution is bad, companies have the same rights as people, ...).

Public health care, compulsory education, the rule of law are the source of wealth creation. For that you need people with the freedom to pursue their business and their careers, but also progressive taxes and wealth redistribution.

Capitalism is a word charged with a too much political charge to get reasonable discussions.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#112

Post by pavlov »

dis-sys wrote: post #100
pavlov wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you provide a credible source? "Just google for it" is generally what people say to support arguments based on conspiracy theories.

what I said is something well known, widely reported - he got jailed for a completely different matter. if you couldn't bother to even search for that, what is the point joining the discussion? let me know if google.com is too hard for you to use.

You're clearly trying to seed doubt about why Liu was sentenced to 11 years in prison.

He was condemned for "subversion", a vaguely defined crime that doesn't exist in democracies, but has been a popular legal tool in dictatorships.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#113

Post by codefined »

factsaresacred wrote: post #90
throwa34943way wrote: post #63

To some in the west, China is a land of opportunities, a booming economy with tech giants and a supply chain for the industrial world. To others it's a bloody dictatorship that assassinated thousands of people for the sole crime of speaking their mind in 1989. To me it's the embodiment of the hypocrisy of the west when it comes to the defense human rights. Let's be frank, we didn't abolish slavery, we just outsourced…

> Let's be frank, we didn't abolish slavery, we just outsourced it to make it more acceptable. As Joan Robinson said, "the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all." Being paid for work you do not have to do is not slavery. You see we built this thing called civilization whereby instead of starving when crops fail, dying at age 30 with dysentery and livi…

As a point, what are your thoughts of a Meritocracy as a paradigm to follow? Nationalise everything, pay everyone an equal amount, to begin with, but based on their "merits" boost their pay. Seems to have all the advantages of capitalism, without the perceived negatives of communism equally a dictatorship or "fat cats", which could be managed by the government.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#114

Post by emanreus »

TokenDiversity wrote: post #3

I'm surprised China gets away with so much! They recently banned kids from being named Mohammad. And had Imams dance. I wish our war-mongering republicans would switch their attention to countries that really violate human rights. EDIT: Of course they do much worse, I was pointing to the fact that not a peep was heard on Fox or CNN.

> They recently banned kids from being named Mohammad.

Glorifying someone like Mohammad is far worse.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#115

Post by ruleabidinguser »

dis-sys wrote: post #106
redial wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't defend your position. That's what I thought. A joke indeed.

I said "certain views should never ever be publicly stated", and suddenly I need to defend such position? If you live in a society that allows you to publicly state anything without consequences, I'd say that is horrible. If you live in the US, try talk about some racial stuff and bring in the same colonization elements in, see how that is going to end. Time to grow up talk like an adult.

I think the consequences should be decided by the people, rather than an what must be a very insecure central power

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#116

Post by narrator »

gentro wrote: post #14

You ever get the feeling this Nobel Prize and the western media's fawning coverage of Liu Xiaobo is really just about westerners making themselves feel better? China will get democracy one day. It will be because a large swath of Chinese people want it. Although there have been some high profile dissidents in China over the last 30 years, including Liu Xiaobo and the 1989 students, most Chinese are probably not ready…

This assumes that Chinese will want to be more like the west. Maybe this would have been true when China was economically underdeveloped, but as living standards improve they might care less what outsiders think and instead think they have something better. There's too much "White Man's Burden" ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden ) thinking going on here.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#117

Post by dis-sys »

jackvalentine wrote: post #102
dis-sys wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can believe what you choose to believe. His comments were widely reported and he never ever even tried to dispute about the general interruption.

Hi there. I see you've posted a lot in this thread. Lots of very short replies like this one repeating the same basic thing over and over. I do think there is merit in condemning even entertaining the idea we're discussing but your many posts give a very desperate air to your position. Perhaps you could allow others to have side conversations in this thread without popping in constantly.

I posted my comments above because you are blindly defending Liu's repressive comments without providing any 3rd party proof that can be publicly verified.

For your concerns regarding my post above, maybe you can start to back up your claims by providing some proof? For example, when you painted Liu's "China should be colonized by the west for 300 years" comments as some so called "misunderstanding", can you be more specific and shed some light on what makes you to believe that? Surely some convincing evidence is going to mute my doubts.

If you check my posts, I've provided his comments together with some analysis on his stands from a mainstream western media. You posted 4 times in this thread but everything was just what _YOU_ believe.

Sounds reasonable to you?

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#118

Post by dilemma »

throwa34943way wrote: post #63

To some in the west, China is a land of opportunities, a booming economy with tech giants and a supply chain for the industrial world. To others it's a bloody dictatorship that assassinated thousands of people for the sole crime of speaking their mind in 1989. To me it's the embodiment of the hypocrisy of the west when it comes to the defense human rights. Let's be frank, we didn't abolish slavery, we just outsourced…

>To me it's the embodiment of the hypocrisy of the west when it comes to the defense human rights.

The Iraq War, The American War on Vietnam, daily drone bombings in Afghanistan and Pakistan by a nobel peace prize winner would be more like it.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#119

Post by yurofish »

dis-sys wrote: post #81
redial wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the core issue here is simple: how come such a man who repeatedly made such extremist styles comments in public got awarded the nobel peace prize. That is your issue, not mine. > you came to this thread largely because Liu is not a random dude on street, he had the nobel peace prize. I am here because of the outrageous comment you made about ‘certain views that should never ever be publicly stated’. If you can’t de…

what? saying "certain views should never ever be publicly stated" is outrageous? what a joke.

It absolutely is outrageous. You cannot put any limits on free speech in a free society. The people should monitor their own behavior, not the state.

Re: I Have No Enemies: My Final Statement (2009)

#120

Post by redial »

dis-sys wrote: post #106
redial wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't defend your position. That's what I thought. A joke indeed.

I said "certain views should never ever be publicly stated", and suddenly I need to defend such position? If you live in a society that allows you to publicly state anything without consequences, I'd say that is horrible. If you live in the US, try talk about some racial stuff and bring in the same colonization elements in, see how that is going to end. Time to grow up talk like an adult.

> I said "certain views should never ever be publicly stated", and suddenly I need to defend such position?

Yes. You must defend every word you say.

> Time to grow up talk like an adult.

You mean like an adult who can't defend his/her positions and is willing to send to jail everyone who disagrees with him/her? What a wonderful "adult" you must be.

Post reply on HN