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Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

nytimes.com

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Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#191

Post by kirrent »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #96
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

My Australian bedroom is often that hot, if not hotter during the summer months. I have a fan. You get used to it.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#192

Post by [deleted] »

losvedir wrote: post #118
toomuchtodo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

> My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here. You obviously could live there... it would just be unpleasant. I lived a year in Singapore where temperatures were in the 80-90 range. I stayed on-campus at NUS and was lucky to have a room with A/C, but it wasn't common. The majority of students make do with big fans and windows. I remember working…

[deleted]

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#193

Post by gnaritas »

julianj wrote: post #179
hughw wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy nations already seem to have topped out on population growth, and now grow only through immigration. It could be that when societies reach a certain level of development they naturally produce fewer than two children per family.

As other nations continue to grow and industrialize, the issue then doesn't really go away. It seems that the problem would just move around the globe until we hit critical mass. The only solutions I see to this issue are to be more efficient with the resources we do have and/or move to another planet and start the process over again. Since moving to another planet is not something we will likely be able to do with b…

> As other nations continue to grow and industrialize, the issue then doesn't really go away.

Sure it does, as each national industrializes it solves part of the problem; when they all do it, problem gone.

> It seems that the problem would just move around the globe until we hit critical mass.

You really haven't thought this through.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#194

Post by zkms »

Scramblejams wrote: post #36
bradlys wrote: post #18

> The Lawrence Berkeley study argues that even a 30 percent improvement in efficiency could avoid the peak load equivalent of about 1,500 power plants by 2030. Okay, but where is this 30% jump in efficiency going to come from? That seems like a pretty big leap!

It's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but if you run your refrigerant loop through the ground instead of cooling it using the hot ambient air, you can absolutely achieve that improvement in efficiency. The concept is described here: https://energy.gov/energysaver/geothermal-heat-pumps The amount of efficiency increase you get depends on the ground temp, which varies by latitude, but I've seen 70% reductions i…

> if you run your refrigerant loop through the ground instead of cooling it using the hot ambient air

In the same vein, rejecting heat to the cooler night air is a lot more efficient than using hot day air.

You can operate a chiller at night and generate a bunch of ice efficiently. During the day, you can melt the ice for cooling at day -- without operating any sort of compressor.

Once the melted water gets higher than the desired chilled water temperature, you can turn on the chiller, but you use the water for heat rejection -- which is still colder than the hot outside air.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#195

Post by gnaritas »

jachee wrote: post #114
QuarterReptile wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

> an indifference for any sort of sustainability. That's a pretty apt general description of Las Vegas.

And Phoenix, and Los Angeles, and much of the southwest in general.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#196

Post by undersuit »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #96
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

I wonder how people lived in Florida for thousands of years then.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#197

Post by DrScump »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #23

Trump's 2018 budget zeroes funding for Energy Star, which among other things, helps consumers pick the most efficient devices, save money in the long run. What other ways can consumers compare the efficiency of A/C units? I would think some standardized testing and labels would be required.

The Energy Star program is riddled with fraud[0]. (Have you ever seen a modern appliance that wasn't "Energy Star Certified"?)

[0] http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-470

"GAO's investigation shows that Energy Star is for the most part a self-certification program vulnerable to fraud and abuse. GAO obtained Energy Star certifications for 15 bogus products, including a gas-powered alarm clock."

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#198

Post by gnaritas »

rplst8 wrote: post #111
QuarterReptile wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

Having large groups living in mega city heat islands is also an absurd configuration but pretty much the entire world is guilty of that one.

Because it's not absurd, the advantages of city living are too numerous to count. Your premise is flawed.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#199

Post by SonicSoul »

axelfontaine wrote: post #64

American air conditioners running at full power, chilling the interior and dripping on the sidewalk below on a hot day always deeply trouble me. Maybe it's my european view on things, but for contrast here in Munich we aren't just building out a city-wide heat network, but we also have a cold network! Cold river water flows through the pipe network that traverses the city and large office building can get connected t…

it's scary walking on 5th ave and being hit with freezing air every time i walk by these huge shops that are mostly empty all day. I doubt any of them turn a profit, probably there for brand awareness. why don't we turn them into street facing displays only

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#200

Post by coredog64 »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #94
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

You may find this hard to believe, but moving heat around (i.e. air conditioning) is more energy efficient than straight up heating. It is more environmentally friendly when you consider that in many cold locales in the US, heat is provided not by electricity, but by a shitload of on-site oil-fired devices.
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