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Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

nytimes.com

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Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#111

Post by rplst8 »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #94
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

Having large groups living in mega city heat islands is also an absurd configuration but pretty much the entire world is guilty of that one.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#113

Post by EvanAnderson »

mjfern wrote: post #90
rplst8 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are standardized efficiency measurements that all A/C manufacturers must conduct and publish in the US. You'll see terms like COP, EER, and SEER. Those allow you to compare pretty easily. Currently the minimum is a SEER of 13, but I've seen units as high as 22 advertised.

A SEER 13-14 system can run $5-6K, while a SEER 22 system can cost upwards of $15K (as a guesstimate). In theory, a SEER 22 system can pay for itself over the long-term due to reduced electric/gas expenses. The issue is that higher SEER systems, above 16 I believe, rely on variable speed motors. My understanding is that they are inherently less reliable. A SEER 13-16 system might last 15-20 years (if you're lucky), w…

I've had some major frustrations with poor reliability of the blower motor in a 14 SEER HVAC system (installed in 2006) with a brushless DC motor. I've replaced the motor 3 times in 10 years (conveniently failing shortly after the warranty expired each time). Had I not done the work myself that would have been between $600 and $800 per replacement.

Brushless / electronically commutated DC motors are pretty interesting, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_DC_electric_motor

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#114

Post by jachee »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #94
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

I agree with most of what you've said, but I'd also argue that having large groups living out in the desert is such an absurd configuration for humans that it presupposes an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

> an indifference for any sort of sustainability.

That's a pretty apt general description of Las Vegas.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#115

Post by LeifCarrotson »

jwilk wrote: post #91

Wrong symbol in the title: º = ordinal indicator ° = degree

Two questions:

1. How did you notice this?

2. Why does it matter, or when would I want to use one instead of the other for reasons other than being technically correct?

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#116

Post by Element_ »

Toronto has a deep lake water cooling system that pumps cold water from the bottom of Lake Ontario and circulates it around the downtown core. It is capable of cooling 100 high-rise buildings. I believe when it was constructed it was the largest system in North America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enwave

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#117

Post by rplst8 »

amatwl wrote: post #105
axelfontaine wrote: post #64

American air conditioners running at full power, chilling the interior and dripping on the sidewalk below on a hot day always deeply trouble me. Maybe it's my european view on things, but for contrast here in Munich we aren't just building out a city-wide heat network, but we also have a cold network! Cold river water flows through the pipe network that traverses the city and large office building can get connected t…

Here is why air conditioning is important: it's estimated nearly 70,000 died in Europe during the 2003 heat wave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

To be fair, if you die from a heat wave - you probably weren't going to last that much longer anyway.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#118

Post by losvedir »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #96
jriot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin doesn't nearly get as hot as the United States. Try sitting inside a house in Mobile, AL in July without air conditioner and see how long you last. Using your water example, what about the deserts in the US that don't have a nearby water source to cool everything. Europe is much cooler in comparison to the US.

My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

> My bedroom in Tampa, FL reaches 90F at night without air conditioning. There is no way I could live without AC here.

You obviously could live there... it would just be unpleasant.

I lived a year in Singapore where temperatures were in the 80-90 range. I stayed on-campus at NUS and was lucky to have a room with A/C, but it wasn't common. The majority of students make do with big fans and windows. I remember working next to a campus Starbucks outside, marveling at how well designed it was to make students moderately comfortable without A/C. There was an enormous fan, and the area was covered and designed to facilitate air flow.

After my time there I came back to the U.S. and can much more readily handle persistently hot temperatures. It's fairly unusual to expect it to be cool all the time.

I also just got back from a trip to Oman where it was routinely above 90 or 100 all day long, and people there make do without A/C as well.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#119

Post by djsumdog »

So we curb emissions by building a bunch of new A/C units? Sorry, that's silly.

CO2 is just one of many many forms of pollution. Think you're doing your part by purchasing a hybrid or electric vehicle? There are barrels of oil that go into those tiers, the plastics, not to mention all the pollution that goes into battery production. If your car is fuel efficient, the best thing you can do for the environment is drive it until the wheels fall off. When you do need to purchase a replacement, get a used hybrid or electric.

Climate change/CO2 is not the problem. It's the symptom of rampant consumerism. We can't buy and purchase our way out of destroying the planet. We have to consume less, build cell phones that are upgradable and last a decade instead of 2 ~ 3 years. Companies need to be praised for smaller factories and lower sales for products that cost more and last longer.

That is a very very huge shift in the way we think. I'm not sure if it's even remotely feasible or what it would take to convince people, industry, the world to simply consume less.

Re: Improving air conditioner efficiency could reduce worldwide temps

#120

Post by rplst8 »

axelfontaine wrote: post #99
selud wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And warming up the rivers won't lead to any problems regarding their ecosystem?

No. The vast majority of the heat is removed from the water by a processing plant before it gets reinjected into the stream. The temperature difference is negligible.

Which requires another Carnot cycle.
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