Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

facebook.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 306 posts

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#201

Post by JustAnotherPat »

stowaway90210 wrote: post #193
kabuks wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, what you're saying about me is not true. Please don't do that. Seriously, it hurts.

I was at DBC around the time of the sale and you're full of shit. You checked out, drove tons of taleneted people away (Michael, Lachy, Tony, Jesse, Keith, Zee, Myles, to name a few), and then decided you were bored with bootcamps. You were in it for yourself and it would have been better for everyone if you could have admitted it. Sounds like you're still believing your own stories. Kudos to you for hiring and inspi…

It's true. Those instructors were all amazing, but Kaplan started asking them for their college transcripts to determine their pay scale (lol), and they realized the fight has already been lost.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#202

Post by learc83 »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #140
phillc73 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know that. So why all the noise about how expensive tertiary education is in the US?

Cost of university education has risen much faster than inflation for decades primarily due to easily obtained loans and increasing bureaucratic overhead. At the same time, the job prospects for many degree-holders have decreased. Additionally, student loans are for life and can not be cancelled by filing bankruptcy now. The 20 year thing mentioned by the above comment only applies to very specific government jobs. S…

>The 20 year thing mentioned by the above comment only applies to very specific government jobs.

No you are completely incorrect. For public sector jobs the loan forgiveness happens after 10 years. Under the income based repayment plan anyone who makes payments for 20 years will have the remainder cancelled.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/understand/plans/in...

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#203

Post by learc83 »

phillc73 wrote: post #101
learc83 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's effectively how it works in the US as well for most people. Federal loans (90% of all loans) come with income based repayment plans that charge 10% of your disposable income and are cancelled after 20 years if you don't pay it off.

I did not know that. So why all the noise about how expensive tertiary education is in the US?

As you can see from my sibling comments, people who make too much money to qualify for income based repayment (because they'd be paying more than the standard plan), people who went to college years ago, and the generally uninformed just don't know about income based repayment plans.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#204

Post by bovitclan »

morgante wrote: post #191
xiaoma wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " I don't know anyone who went to an elite university without significant baseline intelligence" Oh, I sure do. The strongest positive correlations I've noticed with elite schooling are conscientiousness, acquiescence to authority and then wealth, in that order. Intelligence is a relatively distant 4th place, thought it still correlates positively, IMO. PG actually wrote a whole essay on this topic: http://www.paul…

For what it's worth, I agree with pg and don't think your college is the best predictor of anything (after all, I actually decided not to go to an Ivy myself). That being said, I reject the notion that it's trivial to buy your way into an elite university. There's a whole class of second-tier private colleges that exist primarily because it's not that easy for rich kids to buy their way into the truly top schools.

I really hope that you see this, because this seems like a teachable moment.

We aren't talking about making a million dollar donation to get your son into school. That happens, sure, but it's an extreme example.

Here are things that richer people can do easily & poorer people struggle with.

* Not working or working part time for four or more years

* Moving across the country

* Living in places with high cost of living (think Stanford, Berkely, NYU)

* Getting tutoring for the SAT, taking the SAT multiple times

* Going to a high school where the teachers give a shit

* Having people in your life who went to college & can help you apply

* Having extracurricular activities that show you'd contribute to campus life

* Already being comfortable with being interviewed at age 18

These are just what I could think of in a few minutes. Scholarships _do not_ level the playing field (though they certainly help).

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#205

Post by learc83 »

hkmurakami wrote: post #102
learc83 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federal loans (90% of all loans) come with income based repayment plans that charge 10% of your disposable income and are cancelled after 20 years if you don't pay it off. The income based repayment plans are also retroactively available to all Federal borrowers. It's not actually as big of a problem as it sounds.

The loan forgiveness entices people who wouldn't otherwise buy the education product and further inflates the sticker price of education.

Sure, but it essentially shifts the debt burden from the individual to the government.

$1.3 trillion in extra government debt isn't a large enough to really cause problems.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#206

Post by bovitclan »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55
bovitclan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of the value of Harvard or Stanford is that they only pick the top n% of the country. The difference between the people who go to Harvard and those that don't has much more to do with money. Hire people with this assumption at your own peril.

Born Stanford and Harvard provide very generous financial aid packages to those that "get in" but aren't rich. The problem is getting in requires a lot of prep and achievement long before the college application is submitted, and that's where the rich get their leg up. And at the end of the day, that is still worth something to employers.

The claim is not that colleges provide no value, but that going to college is not a reliable indicator of anything but privilege. Using it as an indicator of intelligence or work ethic, especially as being more intelligent and hard working than someone who got their degree from University of Phoenix, doesn't work. It's just buying into the narrative that rich people must be rich because they're smart.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#207

Post by blehhh »

DerfNet wrote: post #167
josephorjoe wrote: post #163

So, three years ago, I was attending DBC and getting my first exposure to web app development. Today, I write code for a living and am enjoying the work I do much more than what I had been doing before. Did DBC give me an education equivalent to a computer science degree? No. Did they teach me everything I need to know about data structures and algorithms? No. Did they help me get my first programming job? Sort of, b…

>Did DBC give me an education equivalent to a computer science degree? No. >Did they teach me everything I need to know about data structures and algorithms? No. >Did they help me get my first programming job? Sort of, but not really. This perfectly describes my experience with LaunchCode in the midwest.

Yeah, main difference though is that LaunchCode provides it education for free rather than charging $15k

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#208

Post by s73ver »

morgante wrote: post #89
brooklyn_ashey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, money helps in so many ways. it sure does help you get in. It starts helping you when you are an infant. It helps the whole way. I know this because I worked in the tutoring idustry that helps people get in in exchange for money.

It helps, but it's certainly not the dominant effect. I don't know anyone who went to an elite university without significant baseline intelligence. I've seen so many students who still didn't do that well even after extensive, expensive tutoring. For example, SAT coaching only increases scores by around 50 points. [0] [0] https://www.jefftk.com/p/sat-coaching-what-effect-size

I would disagree. Having money helps in a lot of things. For one, if you've got money, your family probably isn't struggling to eat. If you've got money, you're likely living in a better area of town.

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#209

Post by _r_o_y_ »

morgante wrote: post #191
xiaoma wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " I don't know anyone who went to an elite university without significant baseline intelligence" Oh, I sure do. The strongest positive correlations I've noticed with elite schooling are conscientiousness, acquiescence to authority and then wealth, in that order. Intelligence is a relatively distant 4th place, thought it still correlates positively, IMO. PG actually wrote a whole essay on this topic: http://www.paul…

For what it's worth, I agree with pg and don't think your college is the best predictor of anything (after all, I actually decided not to go to an Ivy myself). That being said, I reject the notion that it's trivial to buy your way into an elite university. There's a whole class of second-tier private colleges that exist primarily because it's not that easy for rich kids to buy their way into the truly top schools.

I don't think they're saying that money buys your way in a Ivy school, but in that it gives you a legs up with stuff like better and earlier education for example

Re: Dev Bootcamp Shutting Down

#210

Post by toomanyrichies »

JMCQ87 wrote: post #153
seaknoll wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mandatory morning yoga This would enrage me.

Bootcamps are not for everyone.

> Bootcamps aren't for everyone.

DBC grad here (Chicago 2013). Mandatory morning yoga is not an inherent part of a generic coding bootcamp experience. DBC chose to make yoga classes part of its unique culture, but I doubt all other bootcamps follow suit.

Personally, I wasn't "enraged" by the yoga and I even appreciated the emphasis on mental health, but I don't think yoga was the only way to achieve this and I would have appreciated the chance to opt out.

Post reply on HN