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The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

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Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#271

Post by Broken_Hippo »

tehwebguy wrote: post #56
bad_user wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But wasn't the feature of making yourself a "brand page" and/or having "subscribers" (which don't count toward the 5,000 friend limit) supposed to mitigate this a bit? If you have a page, Facebook wants to milk you, so they've got this weird algorithm that pushes your posts to only a small fraction of the page's followers, expecting you to start "promoting" them. Basically they screwed "organic reach". Oh, and abou…

> If you have a page, Facebook wants to milk you, so they've got this weird algorithm that pushes your posts to only a small fraction of the page's followers, expecting you to start "promoting" them. > Basically they screwed "organic reach". Average user follows way too many pages and has too many friends all posting to see all content every day. Algorithm isn't here to milk you, it's to stop the news feed from becom…

I'd love to believe you. And you are likely right, the algorithm itself isn't there to milk anyone - but facebook surely acts like they want to, and they'll use that algorithm to do so if needed.

I have a page for artwork. Most of the time, facebook will tell me how much better the current post is doing than so many other posts on the page (even if it doesn't seem likely). It reminds me to post after 2-3 days, because my few fans will miss me. I do art and can't actually get things done that quickly, after all. Every post has multiple prompts to boost the post, noting how others with simiilar content have boosted posts. Sometimes it tells me how many hundreds of local people will see it. Sometimes it'll be a general prompt. These even show up as notifacations, sometimes on both my personal and my artist page. Additionally, I get ads for post or page boosts in my normal feed.

The algorithm is just a part of the milking.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#272

Post by Broken_Hippo »

kromem wrote: post #171

Facebook also has a serious problem in that its news feed is a content recommendation engine with only positive reinforcement but no negative reinforcement. So you end up with a ton of false positives even when actively interacting with the content, and their system doesn't even know how wrong it is. And should you really not like some content, the solution is unfriending the poster, rather than simply matching again…

"The fact there isn't a private dislike button (that no one sees you clicked other than Facebook), is remarkable at this point. It's either woefully obtuse, or intentional so that a feed of false positives better hides moderately targeted ads."

I vote the last option. I think there was an explanation, basically saying it would make people upset or sad and they wanted to avoid that. The solution wound up being a variety of emotions to pick from (which counts more than a simple like). They included negatives like "angry" or "sad".... I'd still just rather have a simple dislike button.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#273

Post by Broken_Hippo »

r3bl wrote: post #24
ianhawes wrote: post #5

There is a very simple solution for this issue. Create a Facebook Page for yourself as a brand, post links to your articles on that page, then share it from your personal Facebook page.

Heck, I did just that! I have a private Facebook account with the people I personally know, and a Facebook page to publish things for my blog. And, oh boy, where do I start with my complaints! 1. So, the problem of the echo chamber is still there. If I look at the last 30 things I've posted, it's always the same group of people that interact with it. One of them starts, next ones follow, and usually, once those 10 pe…

4. Oh my god, the spam! Every single Facebook update I post, there's something in my notifications. Either it is to boost the post, or is it more popular than X% of my previous posts, or my page had X views, Y likes, and Z shares, or some random guy is somehow ranked higher than the rest of the likes enough that his like deserves his own notification. Like, whatever I post, there's some bullshit notification that I don't want to see, and there is no option for me to fine tune it.

I have buckets of hate for this. And they seem to be obvious bullshit. Though, you forgot the infamous, "you haven't posted in 3 days! People want to hear from you!" ... which truly isn't true nor possible. My page is an art page, and I don't have new content twice a week.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#274

Post by Semaphor »

maxxxxx wrote: post #177
kerbalspacepro wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Amazon: "Oh, you bought a wallet? Here are twenty wallets of the exact same type but with slightly different colors that you might want to buy, too"

Funny story: A while ago I took an Ayurveda class (Indian medicine) and part of it was doing an oil enema. There are devices for this that are also used by a certain population for sexual pleasures. Bought one on Amazon and for months I couldn't show my Amazon page to other people because it was filled with sex toys....

My favorite sleeping mask is made by Joy Division, a blindfold sold as a sex toy. When I replace it every 1-2 years (or earlier in case I was on a flight…) my Amazon page is full of sex toys ;)

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#275

Post by dandare »

phs318u wrote: post #268
cameldrv wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the economics of the Internet today. Most sites are ad-funded. They need to maximize pageviews and time on site. The recommender is a huge part of accomplishing that, and it simply won't be tuned to any metric other than maximizing revenue. The solution would be to reskin popular sites with recommenders that had other objectives, such as retrospective satisfaction with time spent. Unfortunately sites k…

Thought just occurred: would I be willing to pay a subscription to have the recommender tuned to remove revenue maximisation and site-addiction maximisation? Would anyone? I've made plenty of "remove ads" in-app purchases on my phone. This isn't too different. And it might actually result in a truly useful experience.

There may be public relations problem - users these days understand that ads pay the bills and don't see them as a moral compromise but try to explain to your users that they can pay premium to get relevant recommendations instead of "spam".

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#276

Post by Semaphor »

softawre wrote: post #202
Semaphor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it is because of weird tastes or something else. But for sites like Steam, YT, Netflix I always wish for more tuning parameters because their recommendations are all horrible. On Netflix, for example, I get recommended stuff that's similar to other things I didn't like. Amazon is often the best of them for books because their engine seems to only really value the last few things I looked at / bought a…

Steam itself doesn't have filtering like that but third-party sites do. Try: https://steamdb.info/

Yeah, I know steamdb. Didn't know they had such a search though and looking there I can't find it, got a direct link?

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#277

Post by realusername »

SapphireSun wrote: post #99
hutattedonmyarm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I get more (and less relevant) notifications the less I’m active. $friendINeverTalkTo has commented on $PostByPageIDontFollow is NOT something I want to get notified about. Neither is XYZ has uploaded a photo

My guess is the point of those notifications is that it gives them an excuse to add points to the addictive little red number. It's not because they think you'll actually care.

I saw that as well. If you click on of this useless notification, they invent a new one around 30mins later which would not have existed otherwise.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#278

Post by r3bl »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #273
r3bl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck, I did just that! I have a private Facebook account with the people I personally know, and a Facebook page to publish things for my blog. And, oh boy, where do I start with my complaints! 1. So, the problem of the echo chamber is still there. If I look at the last 30 things I've posted, it's always the same group of people that interact with it. One of them starts, next ones follow, and usually, once those 10 pe…

4. Oh my god, the spam! Every single Facebook update I post, there's something in my notifications. Either it is to boost the post, or is it more popular than X% of my previous posts, or my page had X views, Y likes, and Z shares, or some random guy is somehow ranked higher than the rest of the likes enough that his like deserves his own notification. Like, whatever I post, there's some bullshit notification that I d…

This first one "more popular than X% of my previous posts" is the most obvious bullshit to me, because the number keeps changing! Sometimes it's 70%, sometimes 80%, sometimes 95%.

Oh, and I forgot to even mention the "boost it for free!" that I get from time to time, even though it's not really free, it just says so on the notification. A friend of mine fell for that and was charged. I clicked on it and, luckily, I didn't enter my credit card data in the past, so I was instantly suspicious when they asked for it.

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#279

Post by watwut »

unoti wrote: post #206
Semaphor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it is because of weird tastes or something else. But for sites like Steam, YT, Netflix I always wish for more tuning parameters because their recommendations are all horrible. On Netflix, for example, I get recommended stuff that's similar to other things I didn't like. Amazon is often the best of them for books because their engine seems to only really value the last few things I looked at / bought a…

> for sites like Steam, YT, Netflix I always wish for more tuning parameters because their recommendations are all horrible. The problem with those recommendation engines is that they're not optimized to serve your needs. They're optimized to serve the goals of their respective companies. And the problem comes when your needs are a little incompatible with the needs of the company. Consider Netflix for example. Their…

Steam would earn more from me if I did not closed it frustrated every time I wanted to buy game. I literally did not bought game because there was no way to filter out stuff I don't like (well defined category in this case).

Re: The Facebook Algorithm Mom Problem

#280

Post by eat_veggies »

wruza wrote: post #267
cameldrv wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the economics of the Internet today. Most sites are ad-funded. They need to maximize pageviews and time on site. The recommender is a huge part of accomplishing that, and it simply won't be tuned to any metric other than maximizing revenue. The solution would be to reskin popular sites with recommenders that had other objectives, such as retrospective satisfaction with time spent. Unfortunately sites k…

They can at least do right recommendations if adblock detected.

That incentivizes using adblockers though, and given that ads are pretty much YouTube's entire business model, that would be nice for you but terrible for the business.

However, they do charge money per month for YouTube Red which removes ads, and a better recommendation system for Red subscribers might encourage people to buy it.

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