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Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#201

Post by observation »

striking wrote: post #27
ahussain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely feel my attentiveness and focus dropped dramatically after computers were introduced into my work life. It's a shame that computers provide such a thin line between work and entertainment.

You can make that line thicker. You can create a new user on your computer specifically for work, with a restricted environment. You could use VMs or dualboot or something. Personally, I'm very happy that we have devices that are capable of doing so many things.

Personally I am considering buying a device to attach to my plug socket for the router. It shall have a crude timer to switch off the electricity.

I think most solutions to the problem are far too complex and this shall suit my needs just fine.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#202

Post by ACow_Adonis »

gambogi wrote: post #164
throwawayjava wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realize my experience is anecdotal FWIW I'm not totally convinced that the paper isn't also anecdotal. They selected for people who would agree to have their internet activity spied on in exchange for extra credit, and then from that group selected only for people using the internet -- not their computers, but the internet! -- in more than half the lectures. And did all of this in a large enrollment undergraduate…

is there really any reason to expect the students who didn't take free points in exchange for privacy to outperform the observed group? Sure, the results pertain more to excluding the internet from the classroom, but really that's just splitting hairs imo

That could depend on a two part hypothesis that I just came up with off the top of my head:

1) people who are more informed care more about privacy

2) you become more informed by being the type of person who seeks out and successfully obtains information and not being distracted

If 2) and 1) hold, your methodology will be biased to those liable to undertake distracting activities or be distracted. Furthermore, perhaps some would not even partake in the study because it's a distraction relative to why they're in the class in the first place.

Not saying that is demonstrable or true. Don't downvote the hypothetical messenger and all :p

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#203

Post by jon889 »

I have had lectures where I have had a laptop/iPad/phone and ones where I’ve not had any. i did get distracted, but I found that if I didn’t have say Twitter I’d get distracted for longer. With Twitter I’d catch up on my news feed and then a few minutes later be back to concentrating. Without it I’d end up day dreaming and losing focus for 10-20 minutes.

The biggest problem isn’t distractions, or computers and social media. It’s that hour long lectures are an awful method of transferring information. In my first year we had small groups of ~8 people and a student from 3rd/4th year and we’d go through problems from the maths and programming lectures. I learnt much more in these.

Honestly learning would be much more improved if lectures were condensed into half an hour YouTube videos you can pause, speed up and rewind. Then have smaller groups in which you can interact with the lecturers/assistants.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#204

Post by Bakary »

bitJericho wrote: post #14

The schools are so messed up in the US. Best to just educate children yourself as best you can. As for college kids, best to travel abroad.

If kids fail to learn social skills and how to deal with society, they will pay a steep price once they reach adulthood.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#205

Post by Broken_Hippo »

legolassexyman wrote: post #167
joshvm wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a two pass approach: hand written notes (I can write equations faster than I can LaTeX them) and then follow up by writing a LaTeX document for each lecture. I had a rule that I wasn't allowed to continue typing up until I understood how each step in the derivation was made. If it was non-obvious, I'd write textbook-style comments around things to explain how to get from line to the next. Worked pretty well fo…

You typeset all your lecture notes? I'm not sure this would benefit a student. Something I wish I did when I was in school is download the solutions manuals and work problems. I considered that cheating when I was in school but now I think it is just being time effective.

"You typeset all your lecture notes? I'm not sure this would benefit a student."

The poster is doing this in addition to actually writing the notes - I've done something similar. Sometimes I take the initial notes on a computer. Later I hand-write them once or twice. Once immediately and once later on to narrow focus down on things I was having more trouble remembering.

The biggest benefit is that such a system gives some repetition. For me, this repetition is superior to only reading notes because I wind up working with the information physically as it changes form. I do get better results in some subjects if I work plenty of problems in addition to this - for example, foreign/second language and maths.

The only times I've found this sort of thing generally unhelpful is with things like music, art, and physical education/sports. These rely on a lot of muscle memory, and it is hard to get by writing.

The common thread in all of these is practice and review. The main difference is in the way they are carried out.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#206

Post by mavhc »

cbhl wrote: post #192
preben wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. Notes are not for immediate learning, they're for assisting in learning later on. As an physics engineering student, I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3. Additional benefits by using a laptop to take notes is that they are searchable, archived and accessible f…

You're only supposed to write 20% of the time (so, like 5% of the material) when you hand-write notes. This doesn't work well in certain classes (e.g. math classes where you have to copy every word of a proof and analyze it later).

Being a human photocopier in maths/physics lectures was the worst thing about university, when you're 6 blackboards behind. That was in 1999, hopefully it's changed now.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#207

Post by mhandley »

JTon wrote: post #97
Balgair wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real though. Many large undergrad lectures kinda run this way. I'll take the video of the lecture (many large universities record all lectures now) and just play it back at ~1.3x speed later. I can rewind, stop, and fast-forward to the stuff I know I need to know. Since the tests/HW are the only thing that matters, why would I not do it this way? It's a better use of all of our time.

A counter argument for the sake of discussion: students in the classroom can add value to the recorded lectures by engaging the professor with questions that ask to clarify, extend, etc. If there are no students left, the students rely fully on the profs ability to monologue. Could be a risk. Could dilute the lecture's potential.

As a professor, I'm increasingly trying to avoid using a computer to lecture. I'm making a lot more use of a whiteboard pen to explain things, backed up by powerpoint slides, video and audio only when I think it adds. The nice thing about using a pen is there isn't a set script - I can digress, or add extra explanation as needed. I do have detailed notes for how I plan to do the lecture, but I very rarely use those notes in lecture. As far as possible, I lecture from memory, which avoids the students thinking I'm regurgitating a script. This means the students feel much more free to ask questions, as it doesn't seem to disturb the "powerpoint show". I find lectures I give this way are much more interactive. I've asked my students which they prefer, and 95% prefer me using a pen. It seems to show in our student feedback too - I'm consistently at or very near the top in our student ranking of lecturers. The one downside is the videos of the lectures are less useful, as pen doesn't work so well on video.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#208

Post by thedudemabry »

js8 wrote: post #199
preben wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. Notes are not for immediate learning, they're for assisting in learning later on. As an physics engineering student, I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3. Additional benefits by using a laptop to take notes is that they are searchable, archived and accessible f…

> I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3 I wonder how you do that - I can't imagine I would be able to make notes in LaTeX in real-time. To me, paper is just faster than any computer solution. Also sometimes you need to draw a diagram or arrow in the notes. > Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. I w…

One of my favorite electrical engineering professors gave incredibly well-planned lectures via overhead transparencies. He was quick to adjust the pace of an individual lecture to the audience, but also provided his presentations as PDF downloads. His presentations were supplemental to the textbooks, but served as amazing base notes. In his classes, I found myself writing prompts for further review and stray observations, rather than attempting to summarize as the lecture progressed.

Having worked on online learning applications since then, I still think that his was the best system for transferring complex knowledge in a classroom setting.

An example PDF that I found through a quick Google search: http://www.ittc.ku.edu/~jstiles/312/handouts/312_Introductio...

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#209

Post by mikecsh »

killjoywashere wrote: post #101
discreditable wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd really like to see a comparison of written notes on a laptop vs paper. Many schools are moving towards tablet PC devices to enable handwritten notes on the computer.

I did this study! In med school I did a survey of my class. I asked them to estimate how many hours they spent engaged in various study behaviors, and asked as one question, what quintile of the class they thought they stood in. Allowing for the Duning-Kruger effect, taking notes by hand was one of the top three things you could do (out of about 30), taking no notes had no effect, and taking notes with a laptop was t…

Sounds like a neat study - would you be willing to share your write-up?

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#210

Post by dalbasal »

I think there is a mentality shift that may come with digitizing learning which might help here.

The discussion on a topic like this can go in two ways. (1) Is to talk about how a laptop can help if students use it to xyz and avoid cba. It's up to the student. Bring a horse to water...(2) The second way you can look at this is to compare outomes, statistacally or quasi-statistically. IE, If laptops are banned we predict an N% increase in Z, where Z is (hopefully) a good proxy for learning or enjoyment or something else we want. IE, think about improving a college course the same way we think about optimizing a dating site.

On a MOOC, the second mentality will tend to dominate. Both have downsides, especially when applied blindly (which tends to happen). In any case, new thinking tends to help.

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