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Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#191

Post by stephengillie »

Techn0logist wrote: post #188
stephengillie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic, all humans are incapable of performing any task due to the existence of the internet. Some yearn for a simpler time, when all humans were incapable of performing any task due to the existence of television, radio, books, friends, meteorology, the opposite sex, or beer. But if you would rather be distracted by trees and bugs, remarkable vistas and epic adventures, feel free to continue using this narrat…

Isn't that merely the slippery slope fallacy? Firstly, the internet does not permanently and completely eliminate our agency, it reduces our agency due to the fallible nature of self-control. Secondly, all of the other activities you listed do not reduce our agency to the extent that the internet does. Some things are more addictive than others. To claim that meteorology and the internet have the same risk to our age…

> Isn't that merely the slippery slope fallacy?

You're correct, you did present a slippery slope.

> Firstly, the internet does not permanently and completely eliminate our agency...

> You can love something to pieces, yet still find yourself unable to do it, merely because the draw of the internet is too powerful.

Which is it? Is the draw of the internet simply too powerful to ignore? Or is it possible to partially ignore this distraction?

> Secondly, all of the other activities you listed do not reduce our agency to the extent that the internet does.

Internet access reduces your agency? Sorry to hear that. Internet access increases my agency.

> Thirdly, establishing distance from the internet (e.g. not involving computers when they aren't necessary, using the computer at the library instead of keeping one at home, adding restrictions to a smartphone or using a dumbphone) is not the same as giving it up altogether.

> We are not optimized to deal with the stimulus of the internet.

You're excusing convenience. If the internet is so harmful, why risk any contact? And are all parts of the internet equally harmful?

Back to the original point, if you don't want to use the internet, then don't. But if you don't want to use the internet, why are you using it to tell other people that you don't want to use it?

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#192

Post by cbhl »

preben wrote: post #108
nambit wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason hand written notes are more effective is that it helps towards better learning just by writing the thing down and slowing it to a pace where your mind can make memories. Even if afterwards the notes are completely illegible, I would argue it's more effective than typed notes.

Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. Notes are not for immediate learning, they're for assisting in learning later on. As an physics engineering student, I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3. Additional benefits by using a laptop to take notes is that they are searchable, archived and accessible f…

You're only supposed to write 20% of the time (so, like 5% of the material) when you hand-write notes.

This doesn't work well in certain classes (e.g. math classes where you have to copy every word of a proof and analyze it later).

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#193

Post by stephengillie »

jdietrich wrote: post #189
stephengillie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or simply exercise some self-control, and do not visit social media while you are working, studying, or otherwise occupied. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you have to do something so unhealthy as locking yourself in isolation to perform the task, you probably shouldn't do it. Listen to yourself, and go do what you want to do instead.

Self-control is cognitively expensive. Our short-term impulses rarely align with our long-term goals. There's a surprisingly small intersection between the set of things that feel good right now and the set of things that contribute to a happy and fulfilled life.

Which is why it's important to recognize those intersections, see them coming before they arrive, and act when the time is right. A time for everything, and everything in its own time.

Construct safe spaces for yourself, that always provide what feels good to you, but will only let you contribute to your own (and other people's) long life and prosperity.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#194

Post by watwut »

stephengillie wrote: post #155
snakeanus wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just log out of any social media. No need to turn off the internet.

Or simply exercise some self-control, and do not visit social media while you are working, studying, or otherwise occupied. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you have to do something so unhealthy as locking yourself in isolation to perform the task, you probably shouldn't do it. Listen to yourself, and go do what you want to do instead.

On the other hand, it is cool when people who are not perfect and does not have iron super awesome self control get advice how to max life. The underlying idea that non perfect people should just forget it is wrong.

Moreover, school has also classes one hates and student need to finish those too. They don't cancel out entertaining classes.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#195

Post by stephengillie »

watwut wrote: post #194
stephengillie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or simply exercise some self-control, and do not visit social media while you are working, studying, or otherwise occupied. If you hate what you're doing so much, that you have to do something so unhealthy as locking yourself in isolation to perform the task, you probably shouldn't do it. Listen to yourself, and go do what you want to do instead.

On the other hand, it is cool when people who are not perfect and does not have iron super awesome self control get advice how to max life. The underlying idea that non perfect people should just forget it is wrong. Moreover, school has also classes one hates and student need to finish those too. They don't cancel out entertaining classes.

If you don't want to use the internet, then don't. Feel free to use other tools to help yourself not use that tool.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#196

Post by watwut »

aleksei wrote: post #15
wccrawford wrote: post #11

I'd be more impressed if they also did the same study with notepads and doodles and daydreams, and compared the numbers. I have a feeling that people who aren't paying attention weren't going to anyhow. However, I'd also guess that at least some people use the computer to look up additional information instead of stopping the class and asking, which helps everyone involved.

> However, I'd also guess that at least some people use the computer to look up additional information instead of stopping the class and asking, which helps everyone involved. No it doesn't. Practically the only point of lectures is so students can ask questions. Otherwise just read the material and don't go. Moreover there are probably others in the class too shy to ask the same question, but at worst it reinforces…

I hated when people asked not needed questions in lecture for over hundred people. At least attempt to answer it yourself, don't slow other 99 people down.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#197

Post by Zpalmtree »

I like having a laptop at uni just because I can program when the lectures are boring, I find the material is too easy in UK universities in CS at least, dunno about other courses or countries, but the amount of effort you need to get good marks along with the amount you're paying is a bit silly, and mostly you'll learn more by yourself...

That said, if you're in a programming class, having a laptop to follow along and try out the concepts is really handy, when we were in an C++/ASM class, seeing the different ASM GCC/G++ and Microsoft's C++ compiler spat out was quite interesting.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#198

Post by bostand »

Zpalmtree wrote: post #197

I like having a laptop at uni just because I can program when the lectures are boring, I find the material is too easy in UK universities in CS at least, dunno about other courses or countries, but the amount of effort you need to get good marks along with the amount you're paying is a bit silly, and mostly you'll learn more by yourself... That said, if you're in a programming class, having a laptop to follow along a…

If its too simple and boring for you, why don't you leave?

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#199

Post by js8 »

preben wrote: post #108
nambit wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason hand written notes are more effective is that it helps towards better learning just by writing the thing down and slowing it to a pace where your mind can make memories. Even if afterwards the notes are completely illegible, I would argue it's more effective than typed notes.

Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation. Notes are not for immediate learning, they're for assisting in learning later on. As an physics engineering student, I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3. Additional benefits by using a laptop to take notes is that they are searchable, archived and accessible f…

> I take notes with a combination of LaTeX and OneNote on my Surface 3

I wonder how you do that - I can't imagine I would be able to make notes in LaTeX in real-time. To me, paper is just faster than any computer solution. Also sometimes you need to draw a diagram or arrow in the notes.

> Slowing down to a pace comfortable for you means, at least in my classes, that you'll miss the next thing in the presentation.

I was thinking about this recently. I teach (assembly programming) in our company using slideshow. But most teachers at my university used blackboard (for math). I am beginning to think that using blackboard is better, despite more effort, because it also forces the teacher to slow down.

Re: Students Are Better Off Without a Laptop in the Classroom

#200

Post by observation »

DINKDINK wrote: post #85
zeta0134 wrote: post #74

Oh, okay, I thought the study was going to be on the benefits of attempting to use the laptop itself for classroom purposes, not for social media distractions. This would be more accurately titled, "Students Are Better Off Without Distractions in the Classroom." Though I suppose, it wouldn't make a very catchy headline. I found my laptop to be very beneficial in my classroom learning during college, but only when I m…

>I opened up a word processor, focused my eyes on the professor's slides or visual aids, and typed everything I saw There are studies that show that verbatim computer note taking is actually inferior to remembering the lecture content: A Learning Secret: Don’t Take Notes with a Laptop https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret...

I believe that is true, but it is also faster to type than write so if you type twice as fast but remember 50% less it's a wash.
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