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Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

theundefeated.com

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Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#51
post #50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that off-duty cops (rightly) have more authority when it comes to these types of situations. And yet, when they make a mistake, they aren't held to a higher standard, despite we, as citizens, granting that authority to them.

No. Police are necessarily involved in more risky encounters than laypeople. They have manyfold the opportunities to make a mistake than laypeople. Training offsets some of that risk, but not all of it.

No. Police are necessarily involved in more risky encounters than laypeople. They have manyfold the opportunities to make a mistake than laypeople.

That's illogical.

There are myriad professions where trust is delegated to the person in that profession, and consequences to go with it. A doctor doesn't get a free pass if they kill someone due to incompetence when performing a surgery just because they do it more often. Heck, engineers are held liable if their work results in injury or death.

Yet, with law enforcement, the opposite is often true, even when the facts clearly demonstrate fault on the part of the police. You couple that with the "thin blue line" culture that results in police circling the wagons whenever one of their own screws up, and it's no wonder that trust in the police has eroded. The perception is that there's simply no consequences to police misconduct. And in many cases, that perception unfortunately matches reality.

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#52
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't research very hard. From the Washington Post[0]: > White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black…

I believe The Guardian also ran a project to count people murdered by law enforcement because there are no strict requirements to record this across the country: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/...

I think that was the same impetus as the WashPo dataset. I do wish the United States made it mandatory for agencies to submit their data to the FBI. I also wish Eric Holder's Justice Dept didn't withhold offender race data from the NCVS. Interestingly, the FBI's Unified Crime Report seems to cover about 50% of police-involved shootings, making it a pretty good sample (and the UCR is generally consistent with the NCVS which is a survey of victims). Leaving data collection up to the media is sketchy, notably because the media are more likely to report officer race if the suspect is black and even more so if the officer is white.

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#53
post #43
post #4

This article makes a lot of claims about innocent black people being gunned down by police, but is there any actual evidence of this happening disproportionately to white people? Last year I trawled the 2015 Washington Post police shooting dataset and couldn't find any evidence, and a couple months later a black Harvard economist released a paper saying he couldn't find any evidence in the data he looked at. Between…

Last year I trolled the 2015 Washington Post police shooting dataset In case this wasn't a simple typo, just FYI: It's "trawled".

They're largely interchangeable in this context:http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/05/trolling-trawling...

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#54
post #40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Absolutely nothing wrong" is a little bit overstating it. She wasn't doing anything illegal , sure, but it was a bit reckless to arrange the transfer so that the buyer was expected to go alone, onto someone's driveway, to replace the license plates and drive off with the car without talking to the resident or owner. Imagine if you sold your Magic cards to someone and told them, "oh, they're in my bedroom at 123 Elm…

She wasn't doing anything illegal, sure, but it was a bit reckless Only in a world where random folks from the neighbourhood might come out and point a gun at you instead of simply asking a few logical questions and looking at proffered supporting documentation. But it's a bit much to act outraged that anyone would misinterpret her actions. Who's outraged at her actions being misinterpreted? The outrage is at the fac…

>Who's outraged at her actions being misinterpreted?

Anyone characterizing her behavior as doing "absolutely nothing wrong".

You can both believe that the son-in-law and officer overreacted without believing the buyer somehow did everything exactly right. It's not either/or.

>The outrage is at the fact that a panicky cop saw something they thought was suspicious ...

Yes, people are outraged at that too, but they also blur that with the more dubious claim that "she did nothing wrong". I think that's pushing it. Again, not "either/or".

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#55
post #5

How is property worth pointing a gun at someone over? It's a car. Cars can be replaced.

It may be just a car to you, but I have a valuable sports car, and if I caught someone attempting to steal it I wouldn't hesitate to point a gun. Not for a moment. Would the intent be to kill? Of course not. It'd be to deter. Edit for the downvotes: it's not just a car to me, and it's not just about the monetary value. It has sentimental value and I wouldn't be able to replace it easily. I don't see what's so controv…

There's no such thing as pointing a firearm to "deter." One of the basic tenets of firearm training is that you never point it at anything you don't intend to shoot. And, when shooting, always go for a center mass shot. "Winging" someone is neither practical nor probable.

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#56
post #43
post #4

This article makes a lot of claims about innocent black people being gunned down by police, but is there any actual evidence of this happening disproportionately to white people? Last year I trawled the 2015 Washington Post police shooting dataset and couldn't find any evidence, and a couple months later a black Harvard economist released a paper saying he couldn't find any evidence in the data he looked at. Between…

Last year I trolled the 2015 Washington Post police shooting dataset In case this wasn't a simple typo, just FYI: It's "trawled".

They're synonymous, but I edited my comment because I can't unsee the modern meaning of "troll". Thanks for that. ;)

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#57
post #4

This article makes a lot of claims about innocent black people being gunned down by police, but is there any actual evidence of this happening disproportionately to white people? Last year I trawled the 2015 Washington Post police shooting dataset and couldn't find any evidence, and a couple months later a black Harvard economist released a paper saying he couldn't find any evidence in the data he looked at. Between…

I agree that the media coverage on this issue is pretty much garbage. The vast majority of cases, even those where the person killed was not committing the crime of which they were suspected, are much more complicated than "they were black." This belief puts me at odds with many (perhaps all) in the "racial justice" movement.

All of that said, there is a core of truth here that I believe should not be overlooked, and that's that dark-skinned people are treated differently than light-skinned people. There is a great deal of scientific literature that supports this belief - generally speaking, people of all races view others with darker skin to be stronger, more aggressive, less innocent, and often older than they really are.

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be just a car to you, but I have a valuable sports car, and if I caught someone attempting to steal it I wouldn't hesitate to point a gun. Not for a moment. Would the intent be to kill? Of course not. It'd be to deter. Edit for the downvotes: it's not just a car to me, and it's not just about the monetary value. It has sentimental value and I wouldn't be able to replace it easily. I don't see what's so controv…

There's no such thing as pointing a firearm to "deter." One of the basic tenets of firearm training is that you never point it at anything you don't intend to shoot. And, when shooting, always go for a center mass shot. "Winging" someone is neither practical nor probable.

Of course there is, but yes, I accept the lethal outcome.

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#59
post #5

How is property worth pointing a gun at someone over? It's a car. Cars can be replaced.

> How is property worth pointing a gun at someone over?

Worth it or not, it's legal in some states and in some circumstances. I'm not sure about TN, where this occurred.

> It's a car. Cars can be replaced.

That car was purchased with money, which presumably was obtained through labor. Your labor, once expended, cannot be reclaimed. The moral argument can be made that theft of property is equivalent to theft of a portion of one's life.

Re: Lifesaving advice from a black woman held at gunpoint by police

#60
post #8

Thank you, this was an interesting read. On the tangent of arbitrary and unneeded flagging, there seems to be quite a great deal of it lately... it's not improving the site. After I got off work, I tried to find a story that I'd noticed earlier and wanted to comment on, but it was completely gone from not just the front page but everywhere. A completely benign, tech-related story. Makes no sense: https://news.ycombin…

Given that that same submitter submitted at least six copies of essentially the same press release within minutes of each other, I'm not surprised if several received many flags for duplication. Click "Past" on that link to see what I mean.
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