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100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

independent.co.uk

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Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#21

Post by the_common_man »

mac01021 wrote: post #14
jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

If Alice pays Bob to kill Cathy, I think we can all agree that Alice and Bob are both felons. If Alice pays Bob to procure a tuna sandwich for her, and Bob chooses a means of procural that kills Cathy as a byproduct, common sense dictates that Bob is again a felon, while the amount of responsibility born by Alice depends on the extent to which she was aware of what Bob was going to do.

> If Alice pays Bob to procure a tuna sandwich for her, and Bob chooses a means of procural that kills Cathy as a byproduct, common sense dictates that Bob is again a felon, while the amount of responsibility born by Alice depends on the extent to which she was aware of what Bob was going to do.

Right. (In this case), Alice is now aware, they are both felons for future transactions.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#22

Post by delazeur »

daptaq wrote: post #5
jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

Ah yes, what's better than trying to shift the blame from the actual people and groups doing this, to individuals, who often don't even know better? No need to address the companies or (dare I say) suggest regulations. It's the consumer who should think about this, he's the center of the market universe - besides 7 billion other centers - and only he - with the coincidental cooperation of all other 7 billion people -…

You're straw-manning here. A lot of rhetoric about pollution implicitly or explicitly paints a picture of evil corporations polluting for fun and profit, but any successful scheme to reduce pollution has to acknowledge that corporations are just one part (even if they are a very large part) of a broader human system. We can't move forward by simply pinning everything on corporations; that's a good strategy for making ourselves feel righteous but not a good strategy for effecting actual change.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#23

Post by delazeur »

devwastaken wrote: post #11
jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

>We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. We do. But, what is your point there? Are you saying that individuals have the ability to group up and stop it by not buying? Because that would be true. But, there's always that problem of realism that gets in the way. In theory, yes, we could pretty much solve or do anything as humans. Does that mean its realistically p…

Yes, the free market approach is unlikely to succeed here, but that's why we have elected representatives.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#24

Post by yorik »

bamboozled wrote: post #13
Joe-Z wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A politician representing the interests of the people who voted for him/her is a fallacy? Then consequentially I should get back all my tax money that went into setting up international trade and other economic deals, since apparently this should also have been my responsibility and these arrangements would have just popped up if I had 'voted with my wallet'.

I never said that, but the majority of adults are responsible for this mess including the representatives they've elected. This includes you and me.

Are you a human or a corporation? Because if you are a human it should be a matter of common sense to see that it is quicker and more effective to regulate the emissions with a law instead of hoping that enough good willed people take their time and start boycotting every single company that does not care about the environment.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#25

Post by delazeur »

bamboozled wrote: post #13
Joe-Z wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A politician representing the interests of the people who voted for him/her is a fallacy? Then consequentially I should get back all my tax money that went into setting up international trade and other economic deals, since apparently this should also have been my responsibility and these arrangements would have just popped up if I had 'voted with my wallet'.

I never said that, but the majority of adults are responsible for this mess including the representatives they've elected. This includes you and me.

> I never said that

Perhaps that isn't what you meant, but it sure looks to me like that's what you said.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#26

Post by dx034 »

A rather stupid statistic in my opinion. Of course we could save the planet by banning all car manufacturing and power plants. Doesn't mean that this is a serious option. It's not important who produces emissions. It's important where emissions can be reduced and how we can achieve this.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#27

Post by adrianN »

sarabande wrote: post #10
jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

I agree with your argument that since consumers are the ones who demand the product, they are the reason such companies exist. However, customers typically have little information on how many greenhouse gases are produced for a given product they buy, and especially not when it counts -- that is, in a store before a purchase -- so they cannot be reasonably expected to vote with their wallet. One solution might be a c…

It's very hard to find out how many GHGs were produced for a particular product. Manufactures have massive supply chains. Tracing a product back to the ores from which it comes is a daunting task.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#28

Post by winter_blue »

I looked at the report[1], and pretty much all of the companies listed are energy companies (e.g. coal/petroleum/etc). I was expecting to see a lot of heavy industrial manufacturing companies.

I can understand a coal plant producing a lot of emissions, but I'm wondering: why would a petroleum company generate a lot of emissions? Do they burn a lot of the fuel they produce? I thought they just pump the crude oil out, pass it through fractional distillation, and sell the resultant fuels?

[1] https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6ced550b4d987d7c03fcdd1...

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