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100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

independent.co.uk

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Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#11

Post by devwastaken »

jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

>We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services.

We do. But, what is your point there? Are you saying that individuals have the ability to group up and stop it by not buying? Because that would be true. But, there's always that problem of realism that gets in the way. In theory, yes, we could pretty much solve or do anything as humans. Does that mean its realistically possible? No. Corporations have grown up with capitalistic countries, and are ingrained in its culture and work.

Sure, I'll stop shopping at Walmart. Until I see my grocery bills go up, and my savings dipped into to pay bills. Its the same story for many, many others.

People don't know any better, and even if they did, and we all grouped together, these conglomerates have such a gargantuan amount of money stored away that they can bet it won't last. They'll win that bet. Employees go on strike, get new ones. Employees try to form a union, close the store, re-open a month later.

When you consider the absolutetely massive size of the money and assets here, the very notion that its 'our' fault, is true, but its reasonings misleading.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#13

Post by bamboozled »

Joe-Z wrote: post #7
bamboozled wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, this is the fallacy that we need "other people", like politicians to solve climate change for us. Try voting with your wallet and changing your bank.

A politician representing the interests of the people who voted for him/her is a fallacy? Then consequentially I should get back all my tax money that went into setting up international trade and other economic deals, since apparently this should also have been my responsibility and these arrangements would have just popped up if I had 'voted with my wallet'.

I never said that, but the majority of adults are responsible for this mess including the representatives they've elected. This includes you and me.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#14

Post by mac01021 »

jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

If Alice pays Bob to kill Cathy, I think we can all agree that Alice and Bob are both felons.

If Alice pays Bob to procure a tuna sandwich for her, and Bob chooses a means of procural that kills Cathy as a byproduct, common sense dictates that Bob is again a felon, while the amount of responsibility born by Alice depends on the extent to which she was aware of what Bob was going to do.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#15

Post by bamboozled »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #8
bamboozled wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, this is the fallacy that we need "other people", like politicians to solve climate change for us. Try voting with your wallet and changing your bank.

Ah the fallacy that we need "other people" to solve the prisoner's dilemma. Try just not ratting out your partner in crime! Ah the fallacy that we need "other people" to solve the tragedy of the commons. Try just not grazing your cattle too much! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_theory

I'll stick with common sense on this one, if you can't see that you and all other educated adults have personal responsibility and that you can influence markets based on your choices as a consumer well, that's a shame.

There can be personal action which can coincide with group and political action.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#16

Post by gautamdivgi »

These are all energy companies. I think there should also be a study on which are the top consumers of their products to better correlate data and change consumer behavior. As an example - one of my pet peeves is the resistance to remote work where possible. The amount of gas and time saved not commuting to work every day has got to be quite significant (along with the need to maintain smaller offices, etc.). If it can be quantified in terms of greenhouse gas emissions there may be more acceptance.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#17

Post by maxerickson »

bamboozled wrote: post #4
folli wrote: post #2

And 90% of consumers are responsible to buy from these 100 companies?

Exactly, this is the fallacy that we need "other people", like politicians to solve climate change for us. Try voting with your wallet and changing your bank.

That's a straw man though, people can call for regulation just because it is effective and doesn't create enormous hassle for themselves personally (trying to find the one product that is environmentally responsible or whatever). They don't have to believe it is necessarily the only solution.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#19

Post by throw2016 »

jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

That's not how the market works. Consumer preferences are expressed by what's available in the market not the other way round.

And even leaving market mechanics aside 'demand' doesn't justify 'anything'.

A civilized society operates on rules and regulations. This is a problem of regulations, capture and unconstrained behavior by corporates.

Re: 100 companies responsible for 71% of greenhouse gas emissions

#20

Post by jblok »

devwastaken wrote: post #11
jblok wrote: post #3

This article makes out like the companies themselves are directly responsible, rather than the customers of these companies, i.e. you and me. We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. Not to say there's not things a company can do to improve it's efficiency, but ultimately, a company isn't going to keep their factories firing away if no one is buying their stuff.…

>We cause these companies to pollute by creating a market demand for their products or services. We do. But, what is your point there? Are you saying that individuals have the ability to group up and stop it by not buying? Because that would be true. But, there's always that problem of realism that gets in the way. In theory, yes, we could pretty much solve or do anything as humans. Does that mean its realistically p…

I get all of that. You're spot on.

My point was just addressing the main theme of the article which is trying to make out that if we just got rid of these companies, we'd cut emissions by 71%. Well yeh sure, but then the world wouldn't continue to function as normal.

As individuals, we have the same methods as we always have. Don't drive when you can walk, use renewable energy, get an electric car, shop local, etc.

And of course, regulating both "ourselves", such that demand goes away. E.g. banning sales of diesel cars. And regulating businesses so that they aren't polluting unduly on our behalf e.g. carbon capture in power stations.

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