Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#61

Post by oh_sigh » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #36

HorizonXP wrote: post #15

I'm a bit evangelical about low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diets nowadays, especially keto. Personally, I'm not at the fitness level where I could conceivably run a marathon. Maybe a 5K or a half. But the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers, and having his wife help him reach the finish. This guy: https://youtu.be/96VZFklUM_Q runs ultra marathons, using fat for fuel. He leaves his fellow comp…

This is dangerous nonsense. Is it possible to run ultra marathons on fat? Of course, you have enough fat stored for many many of those. Is it in any way amenable to a good performance? Not at all, and you don't need a biology PhD to realize that. The limiting factor in endurance sports is rate of oxygen uptake, fat metabolism takes more oxygen per energy yielded and is therefore strictly less efficient than deriving…

Half marathons are right at the very limit of depleting your liver glycogen stores(100-200g). Anything beyond that, you better be eating quick carbs during your exercise, or you will start burning fat.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#62

Post by nicky0 » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

logicallee wrote: post #57

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

>Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marathoners, cross country skiiers) out of billions of people are bumping up against physiology The human race didn't fight tooth and nail for 40,000 years to give everyone education, a code of laws and civilization, safe lives that include both work and leisure, so that I could bump into the limits of my physiology. How is that a normative goal? There ar…

You're probably one of those people who would happily exist as a brain in a jar wired directly to the internet.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#63

Post by ErikAugust » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

sushisource wrote: post #56

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

Yeah, it's a little frustrating to have some person say to me "Oh yeah, I ran a marathon too!". Ok, yeah, you completed it... six hours slower than I did. You walked a marathon. I'd disagree though that the grit/toughness thing to me is too emotional. My marathon time is 3:38 - reasonably fast for an amateur, but nothing blazing. ~8 minute pace. I know that getting that time faster is 100% about my commitment level.…

It may be semantics - I think I agree with your statement. The desire to not only know what it takes to be great, but to execute on that has its origins in emotion, at least. There has to be motivation for it as it's obviously not necessary to survive, haha.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#64

Post by Swizec » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

mirkules wrote: post #39

Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently training for the SF Marathon, here's my perspective on low carb and glucose packets. Low-ish carb is great. It helps you endure long runs overall and it's a good habit in general. Especially for recovering after the race and getting all those calories back. During the long run itself however, glucose packets are absolutely necessary. You run out of glycogen stores every 45 minutes or so. That's w…

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

I use GU. They are disgusting and require a lot of mouth rinsing with water from my Camelbak or water bottles. Chocolate Outrage is the worst offender. Banana Strawberry is the closest to pleasant.

And like another person mentioned, it takes some practice to get used to it. A lot of people have trouble digesting anything while running.

I found that just like my legs needed training to withstand a marathon, so did my digestive system need practice to process and retain enough calories. Eating 4000+ calories on a long run day used to be pure torture. But you get used to it.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#65

Post by gaius » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

logicallee wrote: post #57

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

>Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marathoners, cross country skiiers) out of billions of people are bumping up against physiology The human race didn't fight tooth and nail for 40,000 years to give everyone education, a code of laws and civilization, safe lives that include both work and leisure, so that I could bump into the limits of my physiology. How is that a normative goal? There ar…

fight tooth and nail for 40,000 years to give everyone education

On the one hand that's true but on the other hand, the vast majority of people aren't operating at their theoretical mental limit either, either way a vast amount of wasted potential.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#66

Post by gaius » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:24 PM UTC

mirkules wrote: post #39

Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently training for the SF Marathon, here's my perspective on low carb and glucose packets. Low-ish carb is great. It helps you endure long runs overall and it's a good habit in general. Especially for recovering after the race and getting all those calories back. During the long run itself however, glucose packets are absolutely necessary. You run out of glycogen stores every 45 minutes or so. That's w…

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

Clif Shots are quite nice

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#67

Post by ErikAugust » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:24 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #60

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marathoners, cross country skiiers) I'd add elite soldiers to that list, which would take it up to tens of thousands maybe.

Sure - I could go with thousands... and maybe tens of thousands.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#68

Post by sjg007 » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #7

Treegarden wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks, that was a really interesting article. Unfortunately it focused mainly on what "willpower" is dubious and not so much on what it is instead that helps one resist a craving. Only at the end the author wrote that the drinking lawyer had to much stress (underlying problem). But that isnt really a good general answer/explanation. I once read the book "the power of habit" and maybe that is the answer (its habits w…

In order to resist a craving you must have a craving, and that's why I don't like to think of it as will power. Edit: Maybe it's easier to talk about power to do things.

I think the cravings deplete themselves over time as you don't indulge them.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#69

Post by gaius » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:29 PM UTC

ErikAugust wrote: post #67

gaius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marathoners, cross country skiiers) I'd add elite soldiers to that list, which would take it up to tens of thousands maybe.

Sure - I could go with thousands... and maybe tens of thousands.

SAS, SEALs, Spetsnaz... it wouldn't be a long list!

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#70

Post by the_gastropod » Mon, Jul 10, 2017, 8:29 PM UTC

Danihan wrote: post #18

TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

Willpower or not, I feel like running is really a great thing to do. Will Smith once said (or quoted, don't remember) that one should two things - run and read books. I definitely agree with that. I used to practice sports a lot, football and basketball and that had a positive effect on my teamwork ability. However, only when I started running I noticed how much this sport can influence one's life. There are no short…

How does talent have almost no influence? There are many genetic factors that would impact how strong a runner is. You mention football and basketball, which are essentially a series of short sprints. Sprints are _much_ healthier for people than 100-mile marathons that will essentially bathe your body in cortisol. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mou...

It seems like the more paleo/crossfit "celebrities" contradict popular nutrition/exercise science, the more popular they get. I don't get it. The most influential figure in this space was probably Dr. Robert Atkins, who suffered multiple heart attacks, congestive heart failure, and hypertension. Why are people espousing the same junk science to be seen as credible sources?