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24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

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Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#321

Post by 0xFFC »

jdright wrote: post #198
titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

I understand that very well, currently the project I work has 6.2GB of object files (per platform), imagine that. Chrome is not that huge. :)

What project is that? I am very curious.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#322

Post by yuhong »

sjmulder wrote: post #164
yuhong wrote: post #4

I can't imagine that moving the Win32k stuff back to CSRSS would help much in this case, right? Though it is still a good thing especially for terminal servers where hopefully one CSRSS process crashing just terminate the session.

> moving the Win32k stuff back to CSRSS Out of curiosity, was there some big move of functionality from CSRSS into Win32k earlier? When and what?

In NT4.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#323

Post by vborovikov »

inglor wrote: post #303
mmarks wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to take away from your point, but in my experience the vast majority of C++ build pipelines even at major companies can still be improved. Few people enjoy 'improving the build', it often touches everything, and requires discipline to keep it working. Most of the projects I've worked on have been larger than Chrome, I've seen the compile time for BioShock Infinite go from 2 hours down to 15 minutes with serious w…

Just as a data point - Chrome has more code than the linux kernel - Would you say BioShock Infinite seriously has a larger code base than Chrome? I think a lot of people don't estimate correctly just how huge Chrome is.

Why is it so big?

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#324

Post by PopsiclePete »

titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

Heh. I was reading about the origins of Golang and how Rob Pike and Robert Griesemer were waiting 3 hours or something for a C++ build to finish. And with that much time available - might as well make a brand new language that has compilation speed as a first-class feature.

Are we doing it wrong? In the case of C++ - yes, absolutely, 100% certainly, wrong. I'm not suggesting that Chrome would be better off under Golang - I'm just saddened that 30 years after the C++ abomination was born in Stroustrup's head, nothing else has come out to challenge it.

Maybe Rust?

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#325

Post by netheril96 »

paulio wrote: post #134
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in two worlds at the moment - supporting and maintaining a large PHP application (for which I use phpStorm) and developing .NET applications (for which I, obviously, use VS). I've been a VS user for nigh-on 10 years now and always found the experience really fantastic. I think it's certainly more coherent that the IntelliJ-based IDEs (which, to be fair, are also very good). Anyway, I'm genuinely surprised to s…

"what specifically do you dislike about it?" It's not the tooling I dislike it's the performance. No matter what I throw at it I still get the same experience. It feels like 95% of everything it does is blocking the UI.

In my experience, IntelliJ has even worse performance. Xcode is better, at the cost of very limited features.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#326

Post by pjmlp »

ajross wrote: post #313
pjmlp wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "but on those days probably it was one of the reasons why C++'s adoption took off." I know "Design and Evolution of C++" quite well, and have been a C++ user since Turbo C++ 1.0 for MS-DOS.

Sure, but it wasn't a "mistake". Stroustrup absolutely wanted a C with classes, and that meant tight integration with C toolchains. Symbol mangling was the clever idea invented to implement that very deliberate choice, not a fortuitous happenstance.

Actually name mangling predates C++.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#328

Post by robotresearcher »

dman wrote: post #224
girvo wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a language I absolutely adore, and am building a homomorphic encryption based product leveraging Hyperledger on a rather obscure 160 hardware thread POWER8 server; it can definitely work for real production tasks today, even if some parts are rough (and hell, C++ can be rough too). Parallel compilation on this machine is stupidly quick :)

Any pointers to what power hardware you are running?

You don't need pointers - just follow the fan noise from wherever you are.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#329

Post by mmargerum »

weinzierl wrote: post #16

I grew up on the Commodore 64 (1 Core, 1 hyper-thread :-), almost 1 MHz clock freq, almost 64 K usable RAM). The machine was usually pretty responsive, but when I typed too quickly in my word processor it sometimes got stuck and ate a few characters. I used to think: "If computers were only fast enough so I could type without interruption...". If you'd asked me back then for a top ten list what I wished computers cou…

I remember writing C code on my Commodore 64 in my early teens using Power C from spinnaker software. If memory serves I had to put 3 different 5 1/4 disks in to compile / link. There were compiler 1, compiler 2, and a linker diskette.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#330

Post by sqeaky »

gizmo wrote: post #296
zeusk wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can have both. It's okay if a fully optimized release mode binary takes a bit longer to compile, but compiling a few million lines of code for a debug build shouldn't take more than a second or two. > You can have both. Pretty bold claim, without proof.

It's not difficult to spit out machine code at a high pace. TCC is one example given by the grandparent, but it's certainly not the only fast compiler out there. Languages like Turbo Pascal were designed for rapid single-pass compilation, way back in the 80s. A million lines of code represents an AST with a few million nodes in it, which compiles to a binary of a few megabytes. To do this we have computers with a doz…

What you are saying is that it is possible in theory, but no one has done it yet. So in some future were someone rewrites all C++ compilers to not be so slow then we won't need to compromise.

Most C++ devs have to work with tools that currently exist and so we are stuck with what the compiler devs give us. Believe it or not C++ compiler devs are pretty smart people and have largely optimized it as much as possible without a language redesign.

That language redesign is in the works with modules, but the dust hasn't settled yet, so that is also a discussion for the future. In the mean time no other language delivers the performance C++ does right now. So if I want to ship product right now the very real dilemma is fast product with slow builds (and a bunch of tools for dealing with that) with C++ or use some other language for a faster compiler and a slower product.

Then there is Rust, but that is another whole can of worms and not in use in most shops yet (Just switching to something has a huge cost).

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