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24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

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Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#161

Post by egeozcan »

faragon wrote: post #67
titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

Are you sure C++ is the only thing to blame, and not how you use it?

Is there any project that compiles significantly faster than Chrome while being in the same league in terms of LOC? I'd like to know if you have seen such an accomplishment even if its source is closed.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#162

Post by amiga-workbench »

bitwize wrote: post #113

The Amiga prioritized user-input interrupts before all other interrupts, so if there ever was a time you couldn't move the mouse on the Amiga, it meant that the system was well and truly crashed. 30 years on and the peecee industry still doesn't know how to design a fucking system.

I was just thinking that, my A1200 never skipped a beat.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#163

Post by kbart »

elorant wrote: post #49

We've come to the point where building the browser from scratch takes more than building the OS itself.

"We've come to the point where building the browser from scratch takes more than building the OS itself."

It doesn't. It took ~5h to build a tiny (~150 MB) complete system (Linux kernel + Yocto based "OS") from sources on 4 core PC few years ago. With modern CPU, I guess, it might be 3h or so. On the side note, the build process generated >50GB of files.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#164

Post by sjmulder »

yuhong wrote: post #4

I can't imagine that moving the Win32k stuff back to CSRSS would help much in this case, right? Though it is still a good thing especially for terminal servers where hopefully one CSRSS process crashing just terminate the session.

> moving the Win32k stuff back to CSRSS

Out of curiosity, was there some big move of functionality from CSRSS into Win32k earlier? When and what?

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#165

Post by stargrazer »

I think the best summary of how to do this is to take a look at Herb Sutter's three article set on "Minimizing Compile-Time Dependencies". https://herbsutter.com/gotw/

"The Compilation Firewall", or pimpl idiom, is a clever mechanism for getting code out of the header: https://herbsutter.com/gotw/_100/

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#166

Post by peoplewindow »

nailer wrote: post #56

While the issue closing processes slowly is unique to Windows 10, I've found similar situations of not being able to control my OS on RHEL, Fedora, Ubuntu and MacOS. At this point I genuinely believe latency will be the death of general purpose computing. iOS and Android very rarely get out of control. Apple is already pushing iOS devices as laptop replacements. But we lose a lot on these devices with their locked do…

Android isn't locked down. But it also isn't exactly smooth. my Android device frequently shows me white screens or startup splashes when doing something as simple as switching tasks. It clearly can't keep multiple apps in memory at once. Somehow iOS manages to produce a much smoother experience. I don't think it's a fundamental issue though. Just a matter of priorities.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#167

Post by moises_silva »

mysterydip wrote: post #131
titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

Makes me wonder about a distributed compilation. If everyone had a monster workstation but not everyone compiles at the same time, a theoretical networked compiler (which may already exist as I haven't really checked) could spread the files out among available workstations and bring things back together near the end. As the largest issue is the throwing away of duplicate work, I'd see it as a kind of reverse binary t…

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Distcc

I used that 10+ years ago on Gentoo, and never saw anyone using it since. Don't know how often is used now days.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#168

Post by krylon »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #70
staofbur wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of the shit is concentrated on a couple of notable platforms: Windows and Android. Outside of that space I've noticed less productivity hampering nightmare tools and OS features. Really I get perhaps one or two bits of stupid from Linux a year on the server-side, usually when integrating it with Windows ironically, and on the macOS/iOS front I haven't had a notable issue since I switched about a year ago…

I'm using Linux for my daily work for more than ten years now and develop for MacOS since around 2000, and I honestly cannot confirm this. If you have a fast and well-tuned machine, the sluggishness of modern applications might not be so notable, but it surely is there, and then there are also many usability issues of desktop software on Linux. Not to speak of browser-based applications, which mostly have unusable us…

> I no longer use Mail.app but remember it as a particularly bad example.

Huh. I used to think that my Mac Mini was just too puny for my huge mailboxes.

I now use Evolution on openSUSE running on a Ryzen 1700 with an nVME SSD, and it still feels kind of slow-ish. So maybe that program is in need of some loving optimization, too (would not surprise me if it did), or my mailboxes are just unreasonably big (would not surprise me, either). Probably a bit of both.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#169

Post by jussij »

titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

> a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a

That all.

I once work for a rather big accounting software company and the full build of their accounting product took about 4 to 5 hours to complete on the build server.

We ran the build at the close of business every day and the build engineer had to log remotely just to make sure the build worked, other wise the QA team would have nothing to test in the morning.

It too was written using the C++ language.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t move my mouse

#170

Post by codedokode »

raverbashing wrote: post #148
titzer wrote: post #45

Full disclosure: I work for Google on Chrome. A Chrome build is truly a computational load to be reckoned with. Without the distributed build, a from-scratch build of Chrome will take at least 30 minutes on a Macbook Pro--maybe an hour(!). TBH I don't remember toughing out a full build without resorting to goma. Even on a hefty workstation, a full build is a go-for-lunch kind of interruption. It will absolutely own a…

C was ok. Not good, but ok. Then we tried to attach the OO paradigm to it and we got the monstrosity that is C++ (and as a consequence of that - Java - which has fixed some issues but still suffers) And don't get me started on templates I'm so glad that paradigm is starting to die out and hopefully Rust, Go and others will take over (their object model still doesn't get around my head but it will eventually)

C has the same problem because it relies on includes and does not have modules.
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