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Indian IT, “You're Fired”

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Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#71

Post by syshum »

pc86 wrote: post #53
jacobr1 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to make it more humane is a generous severance.

Severance just accelerates the firing process. If you've got to provide 3 months severance, you're laying people off at least 3 months sooner than you otherwise would. I'm sure there have been companies contemplating layoffs that have been able to just barely make numbers to avoid it. Not arguing against severance just saying that "well throw some money at them" doesn't necessarily make it any better.

It does not make it better for the companies, but it does make it MUCH better for the employee, as they now have 3 months to find a job before having to dip into any savings, retirement, or make painful phone calls to creditors looking for payment forgiveness and other things

Companies generally do not tell you 3 mos in advance you are being laid off, so if there is no severance then you are blind sided and are instantly with out income

I would much rather my layoff come 3mos sooner and have 3 months to look for a job before having no income, then been "allowed" to continue to work 3 months longer with no severance

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#72

Post by weberc2 »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #64
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Last layoff I saw happen (I survived), they emailed the people being layed off and told them to meet in a conference room. So as all of them got up, they noticed the rest of us staying. We all instantly knew. 15 minutes later, they all come walking back to get their personal items with armed security guards patrolling (maybe a dozen). I started looking for my next job that day. I don't want to work for a company that…

Where do you work that has armed security guards? The government?

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#73

Post by OliverJones »

In Indian polity, withholding relieving letters is brutal. It makes it very hard for the laid-off person to get another job: one must present a relieving letter to be hired elsewhere.

Courts aren't a useful remedy for a worker with a family to feed: too slow and expensive.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#74

Post by iaskwhy »

muninn_ wrote: post #37
enraged_camel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you need to do immediately before informing an employee that you are letting them go is revoke their access to critical systems and/or disable their accounts. That way, you can allow them to go back to their desk and say their goodbyes to their coworkers without risking them doing silly stuff like delete data.

Or, you just ghost people. Walk in one day and your badge doesn't work. Or you somehow get in and you can't log on "sorry ma'am can't find you in the system here". Didn't Twitter do something like that recently? Although, begrudgingly I agree that it's something that should probably be done if you know somebody is being let go.

This happened to me once. I was not allowed in the building so I called a colleague to bring me in as a visitor. Upon trying to login, "account has been disabled". Called IT, "you've been fired". Called my line manager, "I have no idea what you're talking about". Turns out someone forgot to extend my contract on the system.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#75

Post by zmakr »

donquichotte wrote: post #59

"Indian software services companies are under tremendous pressure to continue to show growth in a slowing global market that is also experiencing increased protectionism in the west." Maybe the managers in the west who made the decision to lay off entire IT departments and replace them by Indian companies started realizing that with the cost of the impedance mismatch in language and culture between a company and its…

Its not the managers who made the decision. Its the shareholders, ultimately its capitalism that made this decision.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#76

Post by solarengineer »

nonamechicken wrote: post #42
LordKano wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many storied have we heard, or lived through, of people being forced to train their Indian replacements in order to receive severance?

One can forego severance in the worst case. But in India, the companies won't give us service certificate if we don't dance to their tunes. This certificate is required for the next job.

This certificate is also important during Visa interviews. The Offer Letter, Appointment Letter, and Relieving letter - all these three are important documents that the next company insists upon. Then there is the whole dance around getting the Form16 (Tax Assessment) document, the Gratuity (an amount given after spending a defined number of years) and EPF (related to pension) amounts.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#78

Post by hyeonwho2 »

thedarkproject wrote: post #67
skocznymroczny wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's mostly an American thing. In Poland (and probably other European countries), under a normal work contract, you are told in advance about being laid off, at least two weeks I think. It gives you enough time to look for another job, and it gives you time to pass your work to your coworkers. No one really does retaliation here, it's all done in a mostly peaceful atmosphere, the laid off employee is trying t…

In Switzerland it's usually 2-3 months notice, for both sides. Depends on what's written in your contract. But escorting people out after firing them seems very harsh and overdramatic to me. Never heard of such things in Europe.

Rationally, the company is trying to avoid employees stealing IP, corrupting files, and sabotaging work. But the social signal it sends is "we don't trust our employees, respect them as people, or value their original contributions to our business. They are just replaceable cogs in our machine."

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#80

Post by shagie »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #54
shagie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that. What I do see is a recognition that only in specific cases with well defined product boundaries does outsourcing development work reasonably. On the other hand we see many companies recognizing that telecommuting and remote work, especially with things that have no end date (keep the servers running, fix the bugs, add these new features) have hidden costs. Those costs are often exasperated by time z…

> There are many entry level positions open, just you need to be able to be in the chair. This statement proves my point exactly. Either you need to be skilled enough to have the leverage to work remotely, or you need to be lucky enough to live in one of the few cities that happen to be growing economically at the moment. When economic growth and opportunity for the unskilled is concentrated to such a small portion o…

My previous job was in the north woods of the Midwest where there are fewer than 75k people living and the next nearest city of more than 25k is an hour drive away. There are several companies there, all hiring at all levels.

There are opportunities for entry level work everywhere. However, the demand for living in urban areas with culture events changes the equation to one where employers have the ability to pick and choose- and will do so for more skilled workers.

There is no luck involved in moving to a city where there are only two Starbucks's.

The asset that the entry level employee has is his or her ass in a chair. There is a lot of value in that and companies will invest in it. They don't want a contractor who will disappear in 6 months or a nameless person behind the account manager who changes every few months.

One just has to say "not everyone will live where they have their hearts set on."

You want to live in NYC? SF? Many people do and it will be harder to compete for limited spots.

That city in the north woods? A quick scan shows 20 open positions in the three biggest tech employers, half of which are entry level. Positions are paying around 150% median household income there.

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