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Indian IT, “You're Fired”

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Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#61

Post by redleggedfrog »

emodendroket wrote: post #52
baursak wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what a better way would be, but I'd sure like to see some innovation in that space. Something less cold, something more human. It might help to remember that fundamentally, modern corporations are top-down totalitarian regimes, and adjust your expectations accordingly.

Sure, but there's no fundamental law of the universe that says we have to just accept that unconditionally and let them do whatever they please.

Or you need a revolution to overthrow the totalitarian regime(s). Just saying, there's always options, just depends on how motivated you are to change things.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#62

Post by baursak »

emodendroket wrote: post #52
baursak wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what a better way would be, but I'd sure like to see some innovation in that space. Something less cold, something more human. It might help to remember that fundamentally, modern corporations are top-down totalitarian regimes, and adjust your expectations accordingly.

Sure, but there's no fundamental law of the universe that says we have to just accept that unconditionally and let them do whatever they please.

You're right, capitalism is not a fundamental law of the universe.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#63

Post by jerry40 »

pavlov wrote: post #32
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…

>Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA.

I saw that in Moscow in 2008 (one big investment bank fired several guys from our team in 20-30 minutes in front of my eyes). It was very unusual. They did now allow a fired person to touch his computer after firing him.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#64

Post by JustSomeNobody »

mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Last layoff I saw happen (I survived), they emailed the people being layed off and told them to meet in a conference room. So as all of them got up, they noticed the rest of us staying. We all instantly knew. 15 minutes later, they all come walking back to get their personal items with armed security guards patrolling (maybe a dozen).

I started looking for my next job that day. I don't want to work for a company that does that to people. Yes, layoffs happen, but 1) NO management got layed off. 2) Treating people like this during the layoff (armed guards, herding them into a room together), is just disgusting.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#65

Post by skocznymroczny »

jerf wrote: post #46
pc86 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of anger justifies that kind of behavior. If that's not criminal, it should be.

It is. If it ever crosses (generic-you) your mind to do that, don't. The revenge is very unlikely to be worth the very significant legal risk you are incurring. Stick to tradition and bad-mouth them with friends at a bar.

or write an angry blog post

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#66

Post by iaskwhy »

pavlov wrote: post #32
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Immediately escorting fired employees out of the building is an extremely aggressive signal, and I don't know if it gets used much outside of USA. It's possible to do layoffs in a completely different way, but it takes time and management patience. When Nokia fired thousands of employees back in 2011-13, they created a program called Bridge that offered former employees seed money to create startups, and even the pos…

I've seen this happening in the UK to around 40 colleagues at 10am one day. I'm assuming it's because it's a sensitive job information-wise so one is not allowed to touch his computer anymore. I've heard non-contractors still get paid the missing weeks as per their contract, they're just not allowed in the building. It's miserable, by the way. The mood continues in a low for months when it happens.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#67

Post by thedarkproject »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #60
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

I think it's mostly an American thing. In Poland (and probably other European countries), under a normal work contract, you are told in advance about being laid off, at least two weeks I think. It gives you enough time to look for another job, and it gives you time to pass your work to your coworkers. No one really does retaliation here, it's all done in a mostly peaceful atmosphere, the laid off employee is trying t…

In Switzerland it's usually 2-3 months notice, for both sides. Depends on what's written in your contract. But escorting people out after firing them seems very harsh and overdramatic to me. Never heard of such things in Europe.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#68

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

I once had a manager get into a fist fight with the engineer he was laying off. The HR manager was in the room at the time.

When management gets together to decide how to handle the notice, the legal department weighs in and says that you have to handle all notices in the same way so you don't create any discrimination liability, and, you have to anticipate the worst case situation where the employee becomes violent.

So you wind up with security escorting the just-fired employees out of the building.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#69

Post by mfoy_ »

nonamechicken wrote: post #42
LordKano wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many storied have we heard, or lived through, of people being forced to train their Indian replacements in order to receive severance?

One can forego severance in the worst case. But in India, the companies won't give us service certificate if we don't dance to their tunes. This certificate is required for the next job.

To elaborate on your point, and to seek a little clarity on what's going on here...

The severance deal thing is kind of like a bonus for helping make the transition easy... you can forego the bonus and "stick it" to your employer, but it won't necessarily affect your future employment opportunities.

I assume the certificate thing is like a proof of employment? So HR saying "Play by our rules or we'll do everything in our power to make your life difficult" is coercive and should be illegal if it isn't already.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#70

Post by zmakr »

This is a blessing in disguise. A majority of the Indian IT workers were focused on working for outsourcing companies. Recently, I have seen the startup scene gaining momentum in India. This will stop India's brain drain as well bring in more revenues to the country directly.
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