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Indian IT, “You're Fired”

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Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#41

Post by Clubber »

fellellor wrote: post #33
nailer wrote: post #13

As someone who worked for a team at IBM where we were forced to train our replacements in India, it seems odd that anyone in outsourcing would be surprised when those roles are further reduced by automation with little regard for the wellbeing of employees.

I don't know if this is your intention, but it is petty to blame someone, who is seeking legal employment, of conspiring to take away your jobs. The decision to use labor arbitrage was taken by managements in developed economies. The workers didn't position themselves in a way that created the arbitrage. It's silly, to say the least, when your reaction is "what did you expect would happen, when you decided to steal a…

That's fine, but if the roles were reversed, there would be the same outrage, if not more, and it's not petty. It's serious business.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#42

Post by nonamechicken »

LordKano wrote: post #21
aNoob7000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comment. The author seems taken back by the callousness of the cuts, but this is nothing new in the United States or even in other western countries. I think Indian IT firms have gotten a free ride for many years using labor arbitrage. Now that there's a whiff of protectionism in the air from the United States and cloud computing is surging things aren't so easy anymore.

How many storied have we heard, or lived through, of people being forced to train their Indian replacements in order to receive severance?

One can forego severance in the worst case. But in India, the companies won't give us service certificate if we don't dance to their tunes. This certificate is required for the next job.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#43

Post by tempForaReply13 »

navinsylvester wrote: post #34

Pretty unfortunate to see lot of comments with an undertone like Indian IT workers deserved this situation. It's not just a problem which can plague Indian workers alone. Lets focus on what can be done to mitigate this issue. #1 Firing is an inevitable process but it should be a transparent process and employees should be treated with dignity. Firing an employee for cost cut shouldn't be any lesser than 30 days notic…

You aren't going to get a lot of support from the West.

We've been dealing with this kind of thing for years, because of labour arbitrage. Asking for help, advice, or for us to join you in some kind of organization now that it's affecting you is... kind of funny actually...

But, in all honesty, we'll be training you to train the machine models that will replace all of us eventually, so, maybe it's time for all of us to suck it up and get along.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#44

Post by nonamechicken »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #19
planetjones wrote: post #14

I don't agree with a lot of what Western companies have done regarding sending IT work to India en masse. However, there is a real human cost now of the lay offs. I believe many Indians have taken out bank loans to buy property and there is no safety net in place for employees who are sacked with no notice. So they are at risk of losing their home and the health benefits (for the whole family I believe) is tied to th…

That's no difference from the US employees who have faced layoff or their jobs being outsourced.

But don't you have unemployment benefits and social security? In India, there is nothing.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#45

Post by bigtunacan »

fellellor wrote: post #33
nailer wrote: post #13

As someone who worked for a team at IBM where we were forced to train our replacements in India, it seems odd that anyone in outsourcing would be surprised when those roles are further reduced by automation with little regard for the wellbeing of employees.

I don't know if this is your intention, but it is petty to blame someone, who is seeking legal employment, of conspiring to take away your jobs. The decision to use labor arbitrage was taken by managements in developed economies. The workers didn't position themselves in a way that created the arbitrage. It's silly, to say the least, when your reaction is "what did you expect would happen, when you decided to steal a…

It didn't read to me like the parent was blaming anyone; just stating that this should come as no surprise. Management outsourced jobs to India to cut costs; if they find a way to cut costs cheaper than outsourcing to India then that is what management will do.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#46

Post by jerf »

pc86 wrote: post #29
kemiller2002 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some valid reasons for it. It's sad the way that it happens, but I've been there on occasion where they didn't do that. One stats guy decided he was angry that it happened . . . . he started deleting all the loss curve data we needed off of the network. There was a hurry to stop him which resulted in the network staff having to unplug all the cables from the routers. Hours of having to put the cable back in…

No amount of anger justifies that kind of behavior. If that's not criminal, it should be.

It is. If it ever crosses (generic-you) your mind to do that, don't. The revenge is very unlikely to be worth the very significant legal risk you are incurring. Stick to tradition and bad-mouth them with friends at a bar.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#47

Post by nonamechicken »

I personally don't have any issue in Indian companies firing people at will. But they don't give employees the same freedom.

All these IT companies have a 2-3 months notice period. This makes it difficult to look for another job. If they want to fire at will, I should be able to walk out at will as well. But if I do that, I will not get my resignation letter and service certificate (I am not worried about the final paycheck left overs). And I need these papers if I have to get another job.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#48

Post by jacobr1 »

pc86 wrote: post #28
mabbo wrote: post #15

I've never understood the ways that modern companies handle layoffs- call people into a meeting room one by one, tell them they're being let go, then escort them out of the building. It's not just that it's cold, but it builds a huge cloud of oppression for everyone else. I just watched this happen to a friend, and the guy who was sitting next to him is now saying "I could be next, better start talking to recruiters"…

Someone is losing their job unexpectedly. Nearly everyone spends too much of their income and saves too little for retirement/emergencies, so losing your job unexpectedly can have devastating financial consequences. Even bouncing back and finding another job could set your retirement back years if it doesn't happen quickly enough, and ruin your credit if you don't have appropriate savings. I don't think there's a way…

The way to make it more humane is a generous severance.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#49

Post by edraferi »

> Saying “You're Fired!” in a nicer tone is not likely “preserve the dignity of the individual.” The guy on the receiving end is still going to get the same message: he’s out of a job and has bills to pay.

I disagree. Sometimes layoffs are unavoidable, but you can fire someone with dignity. I think both tone and substance matter here.

For tone, management should be civil, polite and respectful. Acknowledge the employee's contributions to date, explain the larger context for the layoffs, express regret that they are leaving the team, and wish them well. Just because you're forced to deliver bad news doesn't mean you have to be brusque and vindictive. You give the departing employee dignity by treating them like team member you will miss rather than a minor, expensive annoyance.

Even kind words are cheap. Management should take substantive steps to ease the employee's transition out of the company. Earlier notice (weeks vs hours), severance pay, job search assistance, referrals, etc. all show the employee that the current employer does care about their personal well-being even as they depart the company.

Re: Indian IT, “You're Fired”

#50

Post by nonamechicken »

teyc wrote: post #18

There is a silver lining for Indian IT in all this. Indiscriminate firing to meet quota is a forcing function for indigenous software companies to grow and thrive. Will there be enough work for all of them? Maybe not. Will it raise the quality bar for those who wish to persist in IT? Most certainly yes. This is not the end.

There is already insane competition for government and bank jobs (since these jobs are more or less guaranteed for life). I know so many people who did their bachelors in engineering degrees writing bank exams. These type of news will make Indian IT even less attractive.

Layoffs in IT sector lead to a dip in popularity of software engineers in marriage market: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/ites/layoffs-in-it-...

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