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Photos of Mosul 2017

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Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#101

Post by philipkglass »

thinkloop wrote: post #15
superflyguy wrote: post #9

"But the soldiers had fed me and given me a seat in their Humvees, and the refugees had tolerated my presence on some of the worst days of their lives. They very rightly expected that I would tell their story." You could have explained a little about the death of newspapers and other media outlets, and how much existing footage/photography there is of conflict in Iraq (to say nothing of Afghanistan, Syria etc). They…

"death of newspapers and other media outlets" decreases supply of such images - armchair bloggers have less means, infrastructure and connections to do it.

The proliferation of mobile devices that record videos and pictures has IMO made up for it with sheer documentation volume from people on the spot. The Syrian civil war is far more thoroughly documented than the first Gulf War even though the first Gulf War took place in an environment where Western news-gathering organizations were in a much better financial state. You can see combat recorded from the the Syrian Arab Army, the foreign military powers intervening in the war, and the rebel factions. Not just combatants, either; the aftermath of attacks on civilians gets recorded/uploaded as well. They're all uploading stuff for the world to watch.

The vast majority of this footage is admittedly uploaded in service of one agenda or another, but that's just a lateral move from the status quo ante of the 1991/2003 Iraq invasions. The critical Western press coverage of war in the Vietnam era did not seem to endure. (And that was itself a bit unusual; American press coverage of WW II and Korea was by-and-large aligned with the aims of the American government in those wars.)

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#102

Post by dragonwriter »

Simon_says wrote: post #98
dragonwriter wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISIL (or something like it; the name/identity couldn't be predicted) as a substantial force with territory, was a foreseeable consequences of the US invasion of Iraq, the inadequate allotment of troops for occupation compared to pre-invasion expert-identified requirements, and bungling of details of the occupation like de-Baathification, particularly the wholesale and disorderly dismissal of security services. The US…

I want to believe that this result was foreseeable. I want to believe that some people at least are wise enough to see consequences of actions. Can you point to some piece of writing explaining this prior to or contemporaneous with the US invasion?

Not sure I'll be able to find the detailed stuff I saw at the time, but here's a reference to General Shinseki's estimate of the needed troops and the (manifestly false; Iraq had a long history of ethnic and sectarian militia conflict) administration response.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/20/opinion/mills-truth-teller-ira...

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#103

Post by pinaceae »

aphextron wrote: post #49

The recent drone footage from Mosul is some of the most mind blowing, surreal stuff imaginable. God help anyone trapped in that city. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_F2ntQOcQ

The one upside is that all those suicide attacks slowly wipe out all young men mentally unstable enough to do this.

Will be interesting to see if long term certain psychic diseases (bi-polar, depression, etc.) get less prevalent on the Arabic peninsula.

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#104

Post by Kevve »

nyolfen wrote: post #91
kukabynd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re overdoing it a tad, but let’s just imagine you had a number of that “evil person”. Why would you call him/her and tell he/she did all that? Wouldn’t it be pointless? Seriously though, I’m not saying I have all the answers but let me ask a simple question. Why would the country with the biggest military industrial complex in the world be involved in the regions all over the world, especially on the other half o…

so why are you blaming the US specifically and not any of the disparate partisan groups that directly built ISIS? the islamist militants from MENA, the saudis funding wahhabist madrassas abroad, the gulf monarchies giving arms and funding, the former iraqi ba'athists that make up its officer corps... and instead you choose an entity directly fighting ISIS? why is that? almost as if you have ideological blinders on...

>so why are you blaming the US specifically and not any of the disparate partisan groups that directly built ISIS?

Perhaps because there are more US government supporters than ISIS supporters browsing this website?

And while it seems we pretty much all agree that ISIS are bad guys, not that many Americans appear to be bothered by the fact that the politicians they voted for are bombing other countries at will.

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#105

Post by NegativeLatency »

Simon_says wrote: post #100
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anti refugee sentiment is so unconscionable, what the hell world do we live in

Please at least make an attempt to try to understand the other side. When any immigrants come, they change the country they immigrate to. With these particular refugees, they're refugees in no small part because of shortcomings their home culture has. It's not evil to want to preserve your own culture in the face of this. You can feel empathy for the people trapped in a hellish warzone just as you can feel empathy fo…

You can simultaneously preserve your own culture and let people have a place to live.

Bringing up incidents of rape in the abstract like that is unwarranted and inappropriate in the context of the point you're trying to make.

Think about how you'd feel if you were in the situation of migrants/refugees.

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#106

Post by krapp »

banned1 wrote: post #47
comboy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just my personal opinion, but I think these photos are poor quality. Many of them were not in focus and post-processing was used to make them look better. And that's based on the really small versions available. So I don't think it's surprising they were not accepted by some newspapers (especially that we don't know the asking price). Still, it's great that the author decided to share them for free. They have gr…

Excuse the photographer for the fuzziness of a photo taken while BULLETS ARE FLYING AROUND.

getting the shot correctly while BULLETS ARE FLYING AROUND is the job. Blurry photos don't get printed, and they certainly don't win Pulitzers.

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#107

Post by Kevve »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #70
aphextron wrote: post #49

The recent drone footage from Mosul is some of the most mind blowing, surreal stuff imaginable. God help anyone trapped in that city. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_F2ntQOcQ

anti refugee sentiment is so unconscionable, what the hell world do we live in

Moralizing is cheap. How about you stop voting for politicians who keep bombing and destabilizing countries and producing more refugees?

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#108

Post by the_cat_kittles »

Kevve wrote: post #107
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anti refugee sentiment is so unconscionable, what the hell world do we live in

Moralizing is cheap. How about you stop voting for politicians who keep bombing and destabilizing countries and producing more refugees?

i do, and i hope other do too. its hard to know who is going to do what when people lie to get elected, but i do my best.

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#109

Post by the_cat_kittles »

Simon_says wrote: post #100
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anti refugee sentiment is so unconscionable, what the hell world do we live in

Please at least make an attempt to try to understand the other side. When any immigrants come, they change the country they immigrate to. With these particular refugees, they're refugees in no small part because of shortcomings their home culture has. It's not evil to want to preserve your own culture in the face of this. You can feel empathy for the people trapped in a hellish warzone just as you can feel empathy fo…

this is not wrong, but to me, its out of scale. tons of people are getting injured, dying, and unable to live anything resembling a normal life. i just think the need to address that is much greater than the risks you outline. i think we (the usa) can certainly do more to help refugees before that is thrown out of balance.

Re: Photos of Mosul 2017

#110

Post by Simon_says »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #105
Simon_says wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please at least make an attempt to try to understand the other side. When any immigrants come, they change the country they immigrate to. With these particular refugees, they're refugees in no small part because of shortcomings their home culture has. It's not evil to want to preserve your own culture in the face of this. You can feel empathy for the people trapped in a hellish warzone just as you can feel empathy fo…

You can simultaneously preserve your own culture and let people have a place to live. Bringing up incidents of rape in the abstract like that is unwarranted and inappropriate in the context of the point you're trying to make. Think about how you'd feel if you were in the situation of migrants/refugees.

You can't perfectly preserve your culture when you let in immigrants on the scale that, say, Germany is. It's sort of a sliding scale; the more you let in, the more you change. Europe will be changed for this.

As you should be able to tell from my earlier comment, I do empathize with the migrants. It's a shitty situation, and were I in one of these war-torn country, my top priority would be getting my family out of there. But the laws and immigration policies of Western countries are crafted by the current citizens and should be moulded to their benefit, not a universal altruistic ideal. By my interpretation, that would be limiting immigration to a number that can be reasonably integrated to the host culture. Immigration to Europe currently far exceeds this.

I'm sorry if my mentioning rape offends, but I don't think we can have an encompassing discussion of migrants without at least mentioning it. I could have also mentioned migrants' attitudes towards women, LBGTs, freedom of speech, or freedom of religion. These are not views I want any sizable number of people in my democracy holding.

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