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Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

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Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#331

Post by exclusiv »

tptacek wrote: post #330
exclusiv wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not moving the goalposts. If you're a teenager and you don't use a condom or other means and get pregnant - that's on you. You wrote a long retort which ignored condoms. That's unreasonable. If you don't use a condom no matter what age you are and get an STD - same thing - that's on you too. Your argument about post-conception options - I agree that not everyone has the same access. But I'm not talking about that…

The comment that you wrote and that I quoted from just now is still right there for everyone to read. It's weird to write as if it wasn't. (The comment I just replied to was edited extensively after I replied to it. That's OK; I said what I wanted to say.)

I just added more to it. That's all. If you want to ignore condoms, then we're at an impasse.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#332

Post by pertymcpert »

gpawl wrote: post #325
Scarblac wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most (western, don't know otherwise) countries, you stay home when you're sick, and get paid because it's outside of your control. No matter if that is day 1 this year or day 20.

So employers need to be careful not to hire sickly people?

It's illegal to discriminate against someone because of their medical background or disability unless it's critical for the job. For medical background they wouldn't be able to get the information anyway.

Sickness is just part of the cost of doing business with people, not robots.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#333

Post by izacus »

gpawl wrote: post #325
Scarblac wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most (western, don't know otherwise) countries, you stay home when you're sick, and get paid because it's outside of your control. No matter if that is day 1 this year or day 20.

So employers need to be careful not to hire sickly people?

> So employers need to be careful not to hire sickly people?

Wow. O.o

So in US employers just whip sickly people into coming to work or how does that line of reasoning work?

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#334

Post by debaserab2 »

bluGill wrote: post #315
debaserab2 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way does sex at 16 immediately jump into moral issues exactly? I don't buy for a second that being sexually active as a teenager somehow equates to lack of moral fortitude. There's plenty of teenagers that are aware of birth control and use it appropriately. Do they lack moral fortitude, too?

Having a kid at 16 will screw you up. Most people have a moral objection to screwing up their life like that, as well as the practical objection. Most religions of the world have some form of moral objection to sex outside of marriage, it can be easily argued that the moral objection comes form the practical issues. (most religions predates any form of effective birth control. Today you can argue that the moral is ob…

Yeah okay that doesn't exactly equate to lacking moral fortitude. Think you're projecting a bit there.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#335

Post by whiddershins »

I find it strange any employee would need to be specific about a sick day.

In general, we as a culture tend towards confidentiality about medical conditions.

I have rarely used sick days when in a salaried position, and take a bit of pride in that. But when I do, I expect to not need to explain myself. And I have no problem on a personal ethics level using a sick day for pretty much anything that feels beyond my control, unavoidable, unexpected, and would prevent me from doing a good job.

Maybe that's not the exact letter of what a sick day is for in my employment agreement, but I've never been questioned about a sick day.

I am under the impression the stipulations about what a sick day can be used for are protection against abuse by employees who will game the system. Since that's not me, I don't give it much thought.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#336

Post by clfougner »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #198
clfougner wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're creating the same false equivalence again by stating that an objective post mortem diagnosis not being practically feasible is the same as an objective cause(s) not existing. In my previous post I linked to multiple pages listing objective causes/mechanisms for two mental illnesses. Diagnosing a mental illness post mortem isn't as simple as finding rhinovirus in a person's nasal cavity, but just because the cu…

>if you don't think mental illnesses subside in molecules and physical structures in the brain, where exactly do you think they come from? No ones knows for sure because no one can objectively explain the nature of consciousness and the mind in the first place. That is of course not to say that chemicals do not have a strong influence on the mind. >Oh, and you kind of can diagnose certain mental illnesses post mortem…

> No ones knows for sure because no one can objectively explain the nature of consciousness and the mind in the first place.

True, but I'm still waiting for a single proposal as to where a mental illness would subside other than physical structures/molecules, because the only other explanation I can think of are in the realm of the metaphysical

> The study has no control group and therefore is not objective. If you read the Methodological Issues section, you'll see that this is essentially a study of the neurochemical effects of antipsychotic drugs.

The article isn't a study/original research, it's a review based off of existing research - generally - in which brains from individuals with schizophrenia are compared to the brains of individuals without schizophrenia (controls). Antipsychotic drugs as a confounding factor is definitely an important factor in these studies though. There are however a number of factors that are are not affected by antipsychotics, notably genetics[1, 2]. Certain genetic variants strongly increase the risk of mental illnesses - by what mechanism does this work other than by translating to proteins that exert an objective, physical effect? (Note that studies on this are primarily GWAS based on large populations, not simple hereditary/familial studies in which one could argue that environmental factors were confounding)

  [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_schizophrenia#Genetics
  [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#Genetic

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#337

Post by pcarolan »

My cousin worked at European owned bank that had "mental health days". I liked that term because it sounded more proactive than reactive. They were viewed as a way to take care of your mind and reduce stress. You could use them for baseball games or just relaxing at home.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#338

Post by shanusmagnus »

omegaworks wrote: post #319
nostromo123 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't understand that sex can lead to getting pregnant, I think you're not old enough to be left outside unaccompanied.

That's exactly the line of thinking that leads to societies where women must be accompanied by men in public. It's strategic: prevent women from accessing the tools and knowledge to keep themselves safe, then justify denying them rights "to keep them safe."

You had the kernel of a sensible point a while ago, but now you're just digging in. Acting as if most teenage pregnancies occur because the woman involved doesn't understand how babies are made is asinine unless you've unearthed some population I don't know about; and claiming that frictions standing in the way of perfectly convenient birth control absolves a person from all consequences is both asinine and actively insulting to the agency of human beings everywhere.

Things could be better, of course, and that's worth talking about, but your argument has turned into a caricature.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#339

Post by jamaicahest »

steven777400 wrote: post #5

Great article. A few years ago (at a previous job) I took a sick day for "sanity", but told them I wasn't feeling well. I felt guilty about doing it. I think part of it is the association of sick leave with externally visible medical issues, and the corresponding "straightforward" medical verification. In other words, if you have a temperature or are vomiting, that's obvious. Many infections or physical injury can be…

> Our contract also allows for verification, "If the Employer suspects abuse, the Employer may require a written medical certificate for any sick leave absence."

That sounds pretty standard in any contract here in Denmark, and we have some very strong unions which have created good conditions for employees. I personally think it's fair for the employer to ask for a doctor's note if he/she thinks an employee is skipping work just for the hell of it. Though said unions have made it so that the employer has to pay for the doctor's note, when they request it, so it happens rarely.

Re: Mental health is still an issue in the workplace

#340

Post by usernam »

rf15 wrote: post #285
sgt wrote: post #270

"1 in 6 americans are medicated for mental health." - that is very high. What's causing Americans to have so many mental health issues? I don't have the stats, but I cannot easily believe that this would the case in let's say Europe.

Remember that getting medication doesn't necessarily mean that there's actually something wrong with you when prescribing medications has a positive effect on your doctor's income.

Indeed, the number seems disproportionate. But it can be possible depending on the definition of "medication".

I'd expect the number of mental health issues with an underlying [known] physiological nature (say, bipolar, schizophrenia), and thus mediated with the proper treatment to be _very_ low.

Mental health issues resulting from workspace, work, stress and in general lifestyle issues can still be medicated to help recovery, though the proper solution would obviously be a change in lifestyle.

I've witnessed many people with depression. I can only speak for relatives for which I know the full story. When faced with the issue, at least here, you have two choices. The psychologist will talk you into a lifestyle change whenever possible.

Going to a psychologist is still considered medication here, and it's covered by national health. When going to a psychiatrist instead, the medication (chemical) is almost always guaranteed.

It's helpful to say though that no amount of medication fixes mental health issues related to workplace issues if the underlying cause is not removed. This is a very dramatic issue, as for some people with limited working experience (and thus unable to have a leverage), it's often insurmountable. I known relatives in this situation for 20+ years.

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