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Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

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Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#141

Post by WorldMaker »

munchbunny wrote: post #136
aninhumer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's obviously impractical for cars, my experience using a wireless charger with my phone is that despite being a seemingly minor change, it makes quite a bit of difference for me in practice. Plugging in a micro USB cable is often quite fiddly, and sometimes the cable can fall behind the table and require crawling around on the floor. Not to mention the cables and ports can be quite fragile and end up breaking…

While I mostly agree, my experience with wireless charging in general (with the Qi) has been finicky - if you're off my more than about 2-3mm, your phone won't charge. The Nexus 5 charger had a small addition that more or less addressed the problem entirely: it added magnets at the corners of the chargers that would align with something (probably other magnets?) inside the phone, so you would know where the sweet spo…

Indeed, just today I was late to work because my phone was just a few millimeters off from the correct charging position (on a Qi charger) and I failed to triple check the charging indicators and LED lights before I went to bed and I slept through my non-phone alarms. Inductive charging is handy, but it is its own nuisance.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#142

Post by vurpo »

hodgesrm wrote: post #134
Retric wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC plug to vehicle means you are doing AC > DC conversion which is not 99.75% efficient. So, if this is 93% including AC > DC that's actually fairly good.

Off topic but...Power from solar cells is DC; to the extent these are locally supplying vehicle power you can just cut out the 2-way AC conversion, no? I have this picture that eventually all parking structures will be fitted with solar power to charge parked vehicles. (Roads would be even better, of course.)

As EEVBlog has shown many times, road surfaces are an extremely impractical place to put solar panels on. It needs to be kept clean to work efficiently, and you also need to make a surface with similar friction properties as asphalt, which is not easy when it needs to be transparent and durable enough to take cars and trucks driving over it constantly.

Of course if you meant something like panels on the side of the road, or roofs, or something like that then that's fine, those installations would just be pretty standard solar panel installations. But covering the road surface itself is just a bad idea that would require a significant engineering effort and massive cost to work to any degree at all.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#143

Post by Retric »

vurpo wrote: post #142
hodgesrm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but...Power from solar cells is DC; to the extent these are locally supplying vehicle power you can just cut out the 2-way AC conversion, no? I have this picture that eventually all parking structures will be fitted with solar power to charge parked vehicles. (Roads would be even better, of course.)

As EEVBlog has shown many times, road surfaces are an extremely impractical place to put solar panels on. It needs to be kept clean to work efficiently, and you also need to make a surface with similar friction properties as asphalt, which is not easy when it needs to be transparent and durable enough to take cars and trucks driving over it constantly. Of course if you meant something like panels on the side of the r…

The backup is to simply add a structure over your roads and put solar on that. But, IMO that's just an implementation detail. We have plenty of land for all the solar power we need any time soon without impacting farming.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#144

Post by tonyedgecombe »

alkonaut wrote: post #26
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plugin hybrids do seem to offer the best of both worlds right now.

My problem with them is that they don't offer the greatest benefit of electric: the simple drive train. No thousands of moving part kept moving by a handful of fluids and rubber pulleys all needing meticulous care. With the hybrid you get the best of both worlds in convenience and range but the worst in maintenance. Battery aging? Check. Expensive combustion engine service schedules? Check.

The greatest benefit and main purpose behind electric vehicles is reduced emissions. In this regard plugins are a big step beyond cars with just an internal combustion engine.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#145

Post by bluGill »

njarboe wrote: post #133
bluGill wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car makers make essentially nothing from ICE maintenance. The labor goes to the independent shops, even if you have a dealer do the labor the car maker gets nothing for it. The fluids are from a third party (you can buy manufacture fluid in a few cases - but that is someone else's fluid with their sticker on the bottle). Rebuilds are mostly done by independent shops. Sometimes the manufacturer supplies parts, but thi…

In the US these "independent shops" are called car dealerships and they sell all of the new cars in the US. Manufacturers don't sell cars directly to customers and this is enforced by law in many states. Tesla is the only company doing it. The independent shops usually sell only one brand of car and their profits come mainly from service not sales. Think of them as sales floors subsidized by the money brought in when…

By independent shops I mean fully independent - no business relationship with the manufacture. Dealers are a mix: they are independently owned, but they get things from the manufacturer that the fully independent shops do not.

The typically model is you take the car to the dealer while it is under warranty and then go to a cheaper shop afterwards. Which means that the dealer gets some maintenance revenue (enough that as you say they are sales floors subsidized by the maintenance shop).

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#146

Post by njarboe »

bluGill wrote: post #145
njarboe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US these "independent shops" are called car dealerships and they sell all of the new cars in the US. Manufacturers don't sell cars directly to customers and this is enforced by law in many states. Tesla is the only company doing it. The independent shops usually sell only one brand of car and their profits come mainly from service not sales. Think of them as sales floors subsidized by the money brought in when…

By independent shops I mean fully independent - no business relationship with the manufacture. Dealers are a mix: they are independently owned, but they get things from the manufacturer that the fully independent shops do not. The typically model is you take the car to the dealer while it is under warranty and then go to a cheaper shop afterwards. Which means that the dealer gets some maintenance revenue (enough that…

It would be interesting to know what the total revenue of independent auto repair shops is in comparison to total dealership revenue from repairs. A quick google did not get any good hits for me.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#147

Post by jbms »

throwaway9954 wrote: post #81
jbms wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

93% efficiency at 1kW and 30kW wireless power delivery (from AC plug to vehicle, not 93% only for the transmission): http://www.deltaenergysystems.com/en/Wireless-Charging-Syste... This is very close to systems that are using cables and connectors.

The loss associated with wireless charging is in addition to other losses, so this is 7% loss on top of whatever other losses are in the production, delivery and power conversion chain. Given the sheer amount of power used by vehicles, I would prefer we minimize losses there. Wireless charging for tablets, smartphones and other devices is less of a concern.

It's full system efficiency, not just the wireless charging.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#148

Post by jbms »

Gracana wrote: post #85
jbms wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

93% efficiency at 1kW and 30kW wireless power delivery (from AC plug to vehicle, not 93% only for the transmission): http://www.deltaenergysystems.com/en/Wireless-Charging-Syste... This is very close to systems that are using cables and connectors.

Very close? There's no way you're losing anywhere near 2kW (7% loss in a 30kW charger) to cables and connectors.

It's in the power conversion.

Go educate yourself on the efficiency of power supplies: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/143029-empowered-can-hig...

Over 90% is amazing.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#149

Post by jbms »

hodgesrm wrote: post #134
Retric wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC plug to vehicle means you are doing AC > DC conversion which is not 99.75% efficient. So, if this is 93% including AC > DC that's actually fairly good.

Off topic but...Power from solar cells is DC; to the extent these are locally supplying vehicle power you can just cut out the 2-way AC conversion, no? I have this picture that eventually all parking structures will be fitted with solar power to charge parked vehicles. (Roads would be even better, of course.)

Yes, but the voltage needs boosted up to 300 or 400V, so there's still a DC-DC conversion step + control to ensure the correct current at each range.
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