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Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

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Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#61

Post by gambiting »

xoa wrote: post #53
gambiting wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>that some countries will forbid non-automated car to access some public road in the near future. I am sorry, but I don't believe that will happen in anything that could be described as near future. I don't see any actual bans to be introduced any sooner than 30-50 years from now, and even then only if: 1) the technology gets really good, not just "kind of good but only when the conditions are optimal" 2) the techno…

Beyond gutnor's reply, cars are just fundamentally ripe for disruption. The benefits of personalized arbitrary-point-to-point mechanized transport are so compelling that society has been willing to put up with an enormous price for it, but that doesn't mean the current situation isn't still terrible and ready for a real tipping point effect the instant it becomes feasible. The only reason we've had manual driving at…

I don't dismiss the benefits of automated driving on society, literally everything you said is true and I agree with it 100% - I'm just saying that I feel like the tech isn't anywhere near ready for mass deployment, it feels like a gimmick or a really fancy adaptive cruise control at best, or that people who talk about it come from a Star Wars universe where being surrounded by super high-tech stuff is just normal and indistinguishable from magic.

Seeing the current state of the best-of-the-best from Tesla and Deimler, autonomous driving is decent, but it seems full of the same issues as image recognition - and that was predicted to take at most few years to perfect 50 years ago. Today in 2017 you can fool the best image recognition algorithm with a sofa in a zebra print - it comes with 90% confidence match for a zebra because the pattern is right. I firmly stand by my feeling that getting to anything approaching L5 autonomy will take half a century, and that's not near future in my mind.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#62

Post by agumonkey »

lmm wrote: post #50
agumonkey wrote: post #45

Shouldn't it be mandatory for ICE car manufacturers to make hybrids only ? It would push the market up, simplify through less options and help ecology and health in the process.

Hybrid is the means rather than the end. Better to require CO2 emissions to conform to a certain limit (or better still a gradual tax scale - that's already how it works in my country) and let the manufacturers achieve that by whatever way seems best. The bigger problem in the US is that "commercial" vehicles are exempt from many of the regulations, and so manufacturers get a lot of their cars legally defined as "lig…

"treating businesses the same way as individuals" too leftist for America I believe

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#63

Post by aninhumer »

jdietrich wrote: post #49
worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

>Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. It's a total non-issue in practice. Inductive charging has barely made an impact for mobile phones, because plugging in a cable just isn't a big chore. It very quickly becomes an automatic habit that requires no conscious effort.

While it's obviously impractical for cars, my experience using a wireless charger with my phone is that despite being a seemingly minor change, it makes quite a bit of difference for me in practice.

Plugging in a micro USB cable is often quite fiddly, and sometimes the cable can fall behind the table and require crawling around on the floor. Not to mention the cables and ports can be quite fragile and end up breaking or becoming loose. Also if I want to use my phone occasionally while I'm sitting at my desk, I either have to have an awkward cable hanging off it, or plug and unplug it repeatedly.

For these reasons, I found I'd occasionally leave my phone unplugged by mistake and have low charge in the morning. Since I got a wireless charger that never happens.

That said, most of these advantages would come equally well from a docking station, the only problem being there's no standardisation for that.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#64

Post by freehunter »

agumonkey wrote: post #56
rciorba wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be mandatory to hit MPG and emission targets, not to force a certain technology.

First, companies lied about emissions. Second, hybrid would probably tone down emissions in cities tremendously, even consumption. I have no actual data, but the amount of time spent at low speed or waiting is staggering. A tiny DC motor + regenerative breaking is great.

The lying about emissions thing only became a problem because the testing wasn't sufficient enough to catch the cheats. Companies are going to cheat, they're going to lie, they're going to skirt as much regulation as they can. That's a fact of capitalism, companies are going to do whatever they can to make as much money as possible. It's the job of government inspectors to make sure the regulations are being followed properly and punish the companies when they fail to meet expectations.

Real-world testing scenarios, code review, and a corporate death penalty to follow it up would go a long way towards stopping them.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#65

Post by agumonkey »

freehunter wrote: post #64
agumonkey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, companies lied about emissions. Second, hybrid would probably tone down emissions in cities tremendously, even consumption. I have no actual data, but the amount of time spent at low speed or waiting is staggering. A tiny DC motor + regenerative breaking is great.

The lying about emissions thing only became a problem because the testing wasn't sufficient enough to catch the cheats. Companies are going to cheat, they're going to lie, they're going to skirt as much regulation as they can. That's a fact of capitalism, companies are going to do whatever they can to make as much money as possible. It's the job of government inspectors to make sure the regulations are being followed…

Sure, I still believe it's easier to lie for emissions than to produce hybrid vehicles.. it's simply harder to hide a DC module. I see this as the best middle ground for manufacturers that don't want to do more effort for emissions and sales.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#66

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

okket wrote: post #10

Maybe this has something to do with the new Chinese owners? Maybe they see the future differently? And also, maybe, these owners have a somewhat privileged access to the largest battery production in the world?

Yes. From what I've read, the e-Drive powertrain has been in the works for a while, and Geely's investment is allowing Volvo to bring it to production.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#67

Post by seanmcdirmid »

okket wrote: post #10

Maybe this has something to do with the new Chinese owners? Maybe they see the future differently? And also, maybe, these owners have a somewhat privileged access to the largest battery production in the world?

Not wrong, but the reasoning is off. China has basically mandated from the top a huge push in electric vehicles. This hmeans everyone has to ramp up on their tech. Toyota was for example hugely caught off guard because they were betting on hydrogen. Geely and other Chinese companies are quicker to receive these signals.

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#68

Post by [deleted] »

freehunter wrote: post #64
agumonkey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, companies lied about emissions. Second, hybrid would probably tone down emissions in cities tremendously, even consumption. I have no actual data, but the amount of time spent at low speed or waiting is staggering. A tiny DC motor + regenerative breaking is great.

The lying about emissions thing only became a problem because the testing wasn't sufficient enough to catch the cheats. Companies are going to cheat, they're going to lie, they're going to skirt as much regulation as they can. That's a fact of capitalism, companies are going to do whatever they can to make as much money as possible. It's the job of government inspectors to make sure the regulations are being followed…

[deleted]

Re: Volvo signals 'end of the solely combustion engine-powered car'

#70

Post by thijsb »

jlebrech wrote: post #9
worldsayshi wrote: post #6

Can we please standardize charging stations to not require a person to manually establish a connection? It seems that it would pose such an awkward and unnecessary hurdle. Especially in the coming age of self driving cars. Every time you arrive or leave you have to remember to (dis-)connect the charger. Why not just have some kind of inductive energy transfer or I dunno... something. Edit1: Heh, this could work I gue…

they had battery swapping stations, it would mean a "charge" in under a minute. but it needs a much greater infrastructure.

And the majority of cars have batteries as part of the chassis. Swapping it is nearly impossible.
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