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Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

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Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#201

Post by AshleyGrant »

gcb0 wrote: post #198
AshleyGrant wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't a cheap EV be the only car for a person? Most people drive I drive a four door sedan currently. It doesn't handle 100% of my motoring needs, that doesn't mean I need to own a moving van for that 0.1% of the time I need it. I just go rent it. It also isn't able to be checked as luggage when I travel, and so I rent a car when I arrive at my destination (if needed). I don't pay someone to transport the car to…

we both know you never used any of the m3 performance features. ever. even that one time when you think you did when you stepped on the gas after the red light. m3 has such tight bearings that all it does outside of a track is break internal engine parts 80% earlier than any other consumer car. now, even if you think renting a car that one time a month you need more than 100 miles, for most people it's a hassle they…

Well, first off, you're wrong regarding my use of the M3's performance features. I did European delivery, and did 900+ miles of Autobahn driving in the car, most of which was spent cruising at 140 mph+, including three or four runs up to 165 mph+. Also, when I had the chance, I would take it to the mountains of North Georgia/Western North Carolina to push the car to my limits. Having both done multi-day performance driving schools with BMW's own driving instructors up in Spartanburg, SC, as well as having done hot laps with those same instructors on the Daytona road course, I know the car is capable of performing beyond my own limits, but I am capable of pushing it to about 9/10ths on a track and 8/10ths on a suitable mountain road.

So yeah, I used the performance features of the M3 on many occasions.

That being said, I live in Florida, and the car was, frankly, boring to drive on Florida roads. Driving fast in a straight line at speeds that won't result in my arrest aren't a stretch for the car, and driving the car at my limits makes me a threat to the safety of other people sharing the road with me when I find corners. There is a sweeping right hander on the Interstate off ramp near my house that I could take at 110 mph without the car, or me, breaking a sweat.

Moving on...

You might be right that renting a car once a month is a hassle for people. But I don't think most people go on 100+ mile drives every month (or at least average one trip like that each month).

And I always love how people talk about how much better it is for the environment it is to buy a used car rather than a new car, as if used cars just appear out of the ether. The people who buy my off-lease cars share in the carbon footprint of producing the car.

And even ignoring that, the lifetime carbon footprint of an EV, PHEV, or even just a non-plugin HEV is going to be lower than that of a ICE-only equivalent vehicle.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#203

Post by Munkum »

SEJeff wrote: post #196
Munkum wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really not the case. Space X have built, um, not many rockets. Tesla are planning to churn out hundreds of thousands of cars. The key isn't being able to do it (as someone else said joining metals is a solved problem), it's being able to do it with high quality and in a reliable way. Do you think Space X joining techniques are optimised for making 100k joints in a factory environment?

You are entirely incorrect. SpaceX perfected friction stir welding for large sheets of aluminum for their fuel tanks. That tech was transferred that technology entirely to Tesla, who happen to make cars from large pieces of aluminum (Model X and S). https://electrek.co/2015/05/24/spacex-transferred-novel-weld...

There is no way that they are using friction stir welding in a high volume line. It's a very slow process, visually it's horrible (big scar along the joint) and, though I've no experience with it I would have thought that pushing a spinning piece of metal at high temperatures through two thin abutting pressings would be highly unreliable.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#204

Post by thorin »

gambiting wrote: post #75
jondubois wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a lot of people wanted to own a Tesla so badly that they were willing to stretch their finances to get it. Tesla has had a lot of hype, it can have that effect on people. In some European countries, there are Taxi drivers who drive Teslas (often for economical reasons). Now these people can own a Tesla without hurting their bank account. I think that there is a reason why car brands are either luxury or mass ma…

I live in UK and I see loads of Teslas as taxis, which is almost unthinkable considering the cost of the car - and I don't mean luxury taxis, I mean it's common to see a normal curb-side taxi as a tesla. I suspect the fact that it's extremely cheap to run and tax balances off very high leasing cost and makes it worth it. I imagine nearly 100% of those sales will turn into Model 3s as soon as it's available.

Using EV/Tesla as a taxi seems strange due to the charging time involved, you think it would limit the flexibility in terms of range or working hours although I believe the fast charging of the Tesla might be much more viable than a Leaf for instance.

Tesla has the early apple effect where people want it even though they don't know why they want it. Great marketing!

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#205

Post by gcb0 »

AshleyGrant wrote: post #201
gcb0 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we both know you never used any of the m3 performance features. ever. even that one time when you think you did when you stepped on the gas after the red light. m3 has such tight bearings that all it does outside of a track is break internal engine parts 80% earlier than any other consumer car. now, even if you think renting a car that one time a month you need more than 100 miles, for most people it's a hassle they…

Well, first off, you're wrong regarding my use of the M3's performance features. I did European delivery, and did 900+ miles of Autobahn driving in the car, most of which was spent cruising at 140 mph+, including three or four runs up to 165 mph+. Also, when I had the chance, I would take it to the mountains of North Georgia/Western North Carolina to push the car to my limits. Having both done multi-day performance d…

never suggested a used car. but instead just maintaining one for much, much longer than the average American does.

replacing a good that lasts 100yrs if well cared for every two years is the best example of the disposable society insanity.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#206

Post by SEJeff »

Munkum wrote: post #203
SEJeff wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are entirely incorrect. SpaceX perfected friction stir welding for large sheets of aluminum for their fuel tanks. That tech was transferred that technology entirely to Tesla, who happen to make cars from large pieces of aluminum (Model X and S). https://electrek.co/2015/05/24/spacex-transferred-novel-weld...

There is no way that they are using friction stir welding in a high volume line. It's a very slow process, visually it's horrible (big scar along the joint) and, though I've no experience with it I would have thought that pushing a spinning piece of metal at high temperatures through two thin abutting pressings would be highly unreliable.

"though I've no experience with it" - aka you're not qualified to answer whatsoever. At least you're honest in your trolling :)

SpaceX did not invent friction stir welding, but they did develop a mastery of the technique. Luckily, unlike you, they hire people who have experience in it. The strength of friction stir welds is one of the reasons they use it in the Model X and Model S vehicles, both which blew it out of the park regarding NTHSA safety standards.

Musk himself describes it here (for SpaceX):

https://www.wired.com/2012/10/ff-elon-musk-qa/

They even mention a few of the aerospace bits they have in the Model S:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-model-s-achieves-best-safet...

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#207

Post by sqeaky »

Munkum wrote: post #189
csours wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot welding isn't hard, and wasn't claimed to be hard. Mixed Materials welding and joining is Hard (steel + aluminium/mild steel + high strength steel/ etc).

It isn't even that it's hard. I mean, it's been done before, many times. But there are processes here with a stack of key control parameters that can and will drift. Panels will not be consistent - they never are (and you'd be surprised at the variation). Rivets will tumble in feed tubes or get trapped in escapements. Vision systems will get confused by ambient light or reflections at certain times of day. Weld spatt…

You make it sound like we already know about most of the problems and there is a ton of room for improvement in the current systems.

Isn't this exactly what Musk and his employees are good at fixing? I have seen no reason to bet against Musk, Your complaint is the same as the others saying he cannot do something. You seem to have expertise in how a thing is done now, not in how well it could be done.

He might be late, but he won't fail. As it is this is the scheduled shortened by 6 months.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#208

Post by sadface »

schiffern wrote: post #63
sadface wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but surface-level biology is pretty much carbon neutral. All of the carbon you exhale to the atmosphere comes from the food you eat, which gets its carbon from the atmosphere via photosynthesis. Obviously there are edge cases, but by and large Global Warming is happening because we're pulling carbon out of the ground and putting it in the sky.

The catch is, modern agriculture isn't limited to "surface-level biology." > All of the carbon you exhale to the atmosphere comes from the food you eat, which gets its carbon from the atmosphere via photosynthesis. This is true, but also misleading. When you include the nitrous oxide, methane, diesel fuel, and loss of soil carbon, agriculture is actually net CO2e positive. >Agriculture, Forestry, and Other Land Use (…

Great information here. This is well understood on my end. I just wanted to make a quick point because the topic was on food consumption and I don't think many people ever truly connect the dots between carbon atoms in the atmosphere -> carbon atoms in their salad -> carbon atoms in their breath (atmosphere).

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#209

Post by grecy »

wyager wrote: post #45
grecy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No worries, they will add more. Before you disagree, remember there was a time they went from exactly zero HOV lanes to one.. which is an infinite increase. This time they will go from whatever they have now (usually one) to two, which is at most only a 100% increase. Also keep in mind the day will come that all roads will only permit electric vehicles, essentially meaning all lanes are "HOV". So from 2017 -> the fut…

> Also keep in mind the day will come that all roads will only permit electric vehicles, That would be pretty dumb. This is a very strange claim from an overlander (assuming you agree with it); surely you're aware that batteries are nowhere near the energy density of chemical fuel, and probably won't be for a long time. We're even further away from practical electric ATVs or motorcycles. Banning gas vehicles in the n…

And there you have it. 2040.

I very much plan to be alive then.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/06/france-ban-...

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#210

Post by schiffern »

sadface wrote: post #208
schiffern wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The catch is, modern agriculture isn't limited to "surface-level biology." > All of the carbon you exhale to the atmosphere comes from the food you eat, which gets its carbon from the atmosphere via photosynthesis. This is true, but also misleading. When you include the nitrous oxide, methane, diesel fuel, and loss of soil carbon, agriculture is actually net CO2e positive. >Agriculture, Forestry, and Other Land Use (…

Great information here. This is well understood on my end. I just wanted to make a quick point because the topic was on food consumption and I don't think many people ever truly connect the dots between carbon atoms in the atmosphere -> carbon atoms in their salad -> carbon atoms in their breath (atmosphere).

Indeed, and I should have been clear that I was elaborating on your excellent post, not suggesting any error/omission/ignorance on your part. My intent was to comment on the idea ("if you just consider this one fact, it could be misleading"), not to say anything negative about you personally. My apologies that it came across that way.

So no worries, and no criticism intended. After all, how could anyone say everything that's possibly relevant in one comment? And more to the point, why in hell would anyone want to? :)

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