China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown • Hacker News Board

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#61

Post by em3rgent0rdr » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 4:56 PM UTC

j7ake wrote: post #14

kristofferR wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden isn't socialist at all, it's a social democracy. Social democracies do not aim at making means of production a common good.

I think the confusion is that socialism is used to refer both the economic policies as well as political policies, which are actually orthogonal to each other.. In the case of China it is socialism in political policies but very capitalist in economic policies. Sweden is socialism in the economic sense but politically it values freedom much more than China , you will see this if you notice the differences in tax rate…

My understanding is that although Sweden may have high tax rates, it on the other hand has a more-free market than the US. Hard to place Sweden on either side of the Capitalist/Socialist spectrum.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#62

Post by KaoruAoiShiho » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #56

mistermann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give any examples? Undoubtedly there are still numerous problems, but is it not just that they can't fix the entire country simultaneously, and some areas just have to wait their turn?

Rich poor divide. Transportation. Pollution. Environment. Ethnic separatism/unrest. Energy. Public Health. Rights of criminally accused. And a not quite as well refined legal system...for instance I was reading about how drivers who accidentally hit a pedestrian are actually incentivise to backup to make sure to kill the pedestrians. And the social acceptance and ability to talk freely about social issues in public f…

Maybe it's just a difference in perspective, but I see all these problems and I think, wow, China has come so far DESPITE all these issues, yet there is so much more low hanging fruit to be picked and so much more potential to be obtained. All these problems seem incredibly manageable, and many are being fixed rapidly, and with their resolution growth will speed up even faster.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#63

Post by mistermann » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:13 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #29

mistermann wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem like a crazy idea to me at all. Nationalism and solidarity among citizens has always been a great source of unity in countries, but in the last decade or so it seems to become interpreted as a cardinal sin, and has has split several countries down the middle. If I was leading China I'd most definitely want to keep this sort of bizarre thinking out of my country.

I didn’t mean that literally. The biggest idea that the CCP specifically wants kept out of China is open elections. Anti-nationalism is not really on the radar, and the CCP itself has some anti-nationalist roots from its Marxist heritage.

Anti-nationalism is synonymous with Nazism with many people in the west, and the west sets many cultural trends, I think it is perfectly reasonable for Chinese leadership to be cautious.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#64

Post by mistermann » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #56

mistermann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give any examples? Undoubtedly there are still numerous problems, but is it not just that they can't fix the entire country simultaneously, and some areas just have to wait their turn?

Rich poor divide. Transportation. Pollution. Environment. Ethnic separatism/unrest. Energy. Public Health. Rights of criminally accused. And a not quite as well refined legal system...for instance I was reading about how drivers who accidentally hit a pedestrian are actually incentivise to backup to make sure to kill the pedestrians. And the social acceptance and ability to talk freely about social issues in public f…

To me, most of these are works in progress and simply a matter of timing and priority. The others, while they feel very "wrong" when viewed through the eyes of someone raised in our culture, I don't think are necessarily that harmful provided leadership is reasonably benevolent in the aggregate, which is my impression of China.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#65

Post by _ptgt » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #53

Baeocystin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Amplified. The problems we're having in the West, even today, are a hangnail compared to the societal-structural issues currently facing mainland China.

Can you give any examples? Undoubtedly there are still numerous problems, but is it not just that they can't fix the entire country simultaneously, and some areas just have to wait their turn?

One of the biggest (possibly THE biggest) economic issue facing China in the near future is a demographic crisis resulting from the One Child Policy. A large part of China's economic growth has been the result of the growth of its workforce. Historically, Mao believed "people are power" and encouraged high birth rates--leading to China's gigantic present-day population. This has worked out great in making China an attractive place to manufacture.

As a reaction to the population explosion though, the CCP imposed the One Child Policy in 1980 (1979?). Consequently, China will now start to face the aging and shrinking workforce problem that has slowed Western economies in recent years--except China's version of the problem will be MUCH worse due to the extreme nature of its fertility swings. In fact, I believe the size of China's labor force hit its peak a few years ago.

In addition to the shrinking workforce, a historically rapidly aging society will have to face an explosion in healthcare costs... which tend to be a drag on the economy (though are obviously necessary). Furthermore, China doesn't have the retirement home infrastructure that the West has, which will absolutely need to expand as China has a huge retiring population who have few children compared to the rest of the world.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#66

Post by mistermann » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:29 PM UTC

_ptgt wrote: post #65

mistermann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give any examples? Undoubtedly there are still numerous problems, but is it not just that they can't fix the entire country simultaneously, and some areas just have to wait their turn?

One of the biggest (possibly THE biggest) economic issue facing China in the near future is a demographic crisis resulting from the One Child Policy. A large part of China's economic growth has been the result of the growth of its workforce. Historically, Mao believed "people are power" and encouraged high birth rates--leading to China's gigantic present-day population. This has worked out great in making China an at…

Is it not true though that a massive portion of the country remains unindustrialized, so even if on a percentage basis the population is aging, in absolute numbers there will still be plenty of young people from the farms that could take the place of the current manufacturing workforce?

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#67

Post by owebmaster » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

visarga wrote: post #9

Probably not Xi's problem but China will lag economically and creatively because of this restriction. It's just ceding the entertainment initiative to other creators, outside of China. Even if they ban all creative content from outside China, don't they know that a terabyte HDD can hold enough movies to last for a year, and be copied easily?

Will lag compared to what? Not to China from 10/20/30 years ago.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#68

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

girzel wrote: post #58

I work in Chinese publishing, and the same thing is absolutely happening there. Books are being pulled off the shelves, publishers are being warned away from anything potentially controversial. The basic attitude is, "Don't risk it", and it's absolutely deadly to creativity and culture. On the one hand, the central government is trying to encourage Chinese culture to "Go Out" and wow the world. On the other, it is ab…

[deleted]

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#69

Post by prklmn » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

indescions_2017 wrote: post #23

Another fascinating "censorship" story playing out right now: Tencent Loses $14 Billion After Criticism From Chinese Media http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/tencent-loses-14-billion-ho... To call this "chilling" is a gross understatement!

To say they lost $14b is not even remotely true. Their stock dropped $14b in market cap. they are certainly making money on the game, not losing money.

Re: China's bloggers, filmmakers feel chill of internet crackdown

#70

Post by forkLding » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

ePierre wrote: post #20

Well... Fortunately, there is still Taiwan, the only Chinese-speaking country where creativity and freedom of speech is nurtured and not censored!

In terms of cultural-inspired creativity, Taiwan isn't a great representative of Chinese creative media, Taiwan can only represent certain parts of the Southern Coastal and South-Eastern China/Asia culture in terms of where they draw inspiration for their creativity. Also the general Taiwanese "creative media" industry like films isn't particularly welcoming to Mainland culture or influences.