Live data from Hacker News

EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

eubusiness.com

51–60 of 241 posts

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#51
I totally support this. I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my car radio console. The car is nothing special, a Ford Mondeo that is a few years old.

Cost to replace touch screen module: more than the entire value of the car! That is insane. Effectively, if I want to claim from insurance - crack the touch screen (it is a replaceable module) and have to scrap the entire car.

In this case, I managed to get a replacement (fitted) from a scrapped car for 1/10 of the price the Ford dealer was quoting me.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#52
post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

À better law would be something around: "devices should be made so that they can be taken apart and reassembled at least n times".

That would discourage copious amounts or glue and still let the engineers use the methods they want.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#53
post #51

I totally support this. I accidentally cracked the touch screen of my car radio console. The car is nothing special, a Ford Mondeo that is a few years old. Cost to replace touch screen module: more than the entire value of the car! That is insane. Effectively, if I want to claim from insurance - crack the touch screen (it is a replaceable module) and have to scrap the entire car. In this case, I managed to get a repl…

How does regulation solve the issue that replacing e.g. the touch screen may take many man hours of labor, whereas making the car itself took proportionally less, thus making replacements more expensive? Your experience is a symptom of a high degree of automation in one area (car manufacturing) and the absence in another (repairs), and regulation does not change that.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#54

Of course, the flipside of this is the flipside of Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness - if the cheap boots that fall apart quickly didn't exist, Sam Vimes would not be able to buy boots at all in the first place. The solution is, of course, to put more people in a position where they can afford to buy the more expensive boots and see the value in doing so.

I am unconvinced that more expensive = better quality for a lot of things these days. There are some anecdotal examples of people with Miele washing machines that have lasted for decades etc (... as an aside I guess we wont know about today's Miele washing machines for several more years at least ...), but in my experience paying a premium for a product more often than not just gives you an as-cheaply-made product bu…

If you buy a Miele appliance anf get the extended guarantee which is ~10% of the purchase price, you get 7 years guarantee. As in, something breaks, tomorrow a repairman will be at your house and fix it, no extra cost.

Quality is available, people just don't want to pay for it. Those washing machines that lasted for 15 years? Back then, they cost one or two months' wages. Try to get anyone to pay $2500 for a washing machine today.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#55

Of course, the flipside of this is the flipside of Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness - if the cheap boots that fall apart quickly didn't exist, Sam Vimes would not be able to buy boots at all in the first place. The solution is, of course, to put more people in a position where they can afford to buy the more expensive boots and see the value in doing so.

I am unconvinced that more expensive = better quality for a lot of things these days. There are some anecdotal examples of people with Miele washing machines that have lasted for decades etc (... as an aside I guess we wont know about today's Miele washing machines for several more years at least ...), but in my experience paying a premium for a product more often than not just gives you an as-cheaply-made product bu…

It depends on what you call cheap.

I stopped buying ultra cheap clothing as it rarely lasts 5 laundry cycles and sometimes starts to visibly fail on the first cycle. I realize that it's a viable niche for people with giant piles of clothing they rarely use. But, the jump from 4>40 is reasonable the jump from 40+ stops being economic.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#56

Wages have gone up and consumer goods have gone down in price and build quality. It's not feasible to have a repair business any more. Growing up, there were still loads of repair businesses around. You could fix anything. If build quality and price go up, you can revert to an economy where you would fix your broken appliance once or twice before you replacing it. But what's the incentive for the manufacturers?

Repairability and longevity are not the same thing. Sure if you repair something it last longer by definition. However you can design something that is not repairable that still will last a long time.

I once work on an embedded computer where we decided that the user would wear out one USB port before it would reach our longevity goals. We put two USB ports on it to get over that limit. The alternative was a maintenance schedule to replace the port. Either meat our longevity goals, but only one was also repairable.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#58
post #5
post #2

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’…

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

I don't want to have to pay more for durable products. Please let me choose whether I want to buy extended warranty -- many manufacturers already offer it, but I'm not interested it in.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#59
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait. Wages have gone up? Where and source?

Purchasing power has gone up for those who can take advantage of cheap goods, but as your question insinuates, wages have not gone up; they've been stagnant for decades.

But is that true? Since real estate and renting costs have increased over 400% in some big cities, do cheaper goods offset that big slice of disposable income which pays for that? Is there some overall statistic done to include all these costs and calculate whether purchasing power has really gone up?

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#60

Wages have gone up and consumer goods have gone down in price and build quality. It's not feasible to have a repair business any more. Growing up, there were still loads of repair businesses around. You could fix anything. If build quality and price go up, you can revert to an economy where you would fix your broken appliance once or twice before you replacing it. But what's the incentive for the manufacturers?

> But what's the incentive for the manufacturers?

Possibly reducing the companies' environmental footprint on the world.

Instead of cheap devices being scrapped every two years and sent to the landfill, consumers could instead hold on to the companies' products for much much longer. If products have comparatively more time and quality parts, the cost will indeed go up--both for manufacturing and retail price.

My grandmother had the same bread mixer the whole time I was growing up. And I know she had it long before I was born. It was built to last and she took care of it. My mother, on the other hand, went through at least six different plastic, Made in China bread mixers over the course of my childhood.

Where's the corporate responsibility for all the waste that is generated by crappy products?

If you were KitchenAid or another brand, wouldn't you want to set yourself apart from the others as a company who cares about the environment by making products that will last for years to come and acknowledging that in advertising? Products that can also be repaired if there is an issue, as opposed to chucked aside for a new one because of their lack of value?

I'd consider such a company the "Whole Foods" of appliances. Citizens who share similar conservation values will likely pay more for that product, just as those who opt for solar/wind energy over coal.

Post reply on HN