Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

eubusiness.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 241 posts

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#11

Post by illys »

netcan wrote: post #2

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’…

You probably do not live in Europe (or maybe you just like trolling?).

First I am a voter and I do take the EU parliament seriously. I also consider what the groups and candidates voted in the past before giving them my vote - especially on topics like world trade giant agreements (TTIP, TATFA, CETA... - yes they also vote on that and it is very meaningful for our future).

You may also read some documentation on the powers and functions of the EU Parliament: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and...

You may also just read the news:

-> UK just voted to get out of EU to escape EU funding and regulations - so probably those regulations do exist at a significant extend.

-> A recent example: the GSM roaming (a former giant cash machine against consumers) just got extinguished within EU countries by EU regulation.

So probably - yes - they can set rules on repairability and durability.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#12

Post by simion314 »

netcan wrote: post #2

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’…

Maybe the fact that the people in the EU parliament are not in the focus of the electoral people is a good thing, they will not put a big effort into the political "game", back at home the guys don't usually vote on topics on what they personal believe is best but have to vote on how the party decide is best for themselves to get a good score at the next elections.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#13

Post by jrimbault »

etix wrote: post #5
netcan wrote: post #2

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’…

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

The EU already made mandatory 24 months warranty for all products sold in Europe.

I think this has been beneficial not only to European citizens but also to the US where there isn't a minimum warranty by default. Businesses who sell products on both sides of the Atlantic seem to have mirrored the imposed warranty of the EU in the US.

I am in favor of extending the minimum warranty.

PS: isn't there also some regulation that a business should provide pieces for repair for a period of 10 years? I seem to recall something like that.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#14

Post by simion314 »

Is there also a term that describes this phenomena ? "Each year we get an update for product X with a few minor changes that makes the new version parts incompatible with the previous year version (maybe not all parts are incompatible). I noticed this with washing machines, I wanted to buy a similar model with something that I own and they made a different model, redesigned the outside, maybe small changes inside. I also know that cars get updates each year, some stuff gets changed on the front of the car to look "better" but now under the hood some parts do not fit and need to be moved around and redesigned, then the car needs to be tested again. I think it would be healthy to launch a product, then in first year(s) analyze the defects your products get, next product would be an evolution that addresses the issues. I agree if you have new ideas on how to improve your product go ahead and make the new version but don't make a new model of a microwave that is identical with previous one except you changed the shape, moved some buttons and added a gimmick feature.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#15

Post by vertex-four »

Of course, the flipside of this is the flipside of Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness - if the cheap boots that fall apart quickly didn't exist, Sam Vimes would not be able to buy boots at all in the first place.

The solution is, of course, to put more people in a position where they can afford to buy the more expensive boots and see the value in doing so.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#17

Post by toomuchtodo »

lumberjack wrote: post #8

Wages have gone up and consumer goods have gone down in price and build quality. It's not feasible to have a repair business any more. Growing up, there were still loads of repair businesses around. You could fix anything. If build quality and price go up, you can revert to an economy where you would fix your broken appliance once or twice before you replacing it. But what's the incentive for the manufacturers?

> But what's the incentive for the manufacturers?

They get to continue to sell their products. Internalizing externalities and all that jazz.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#18

Post by pjc50 »

Eridrus wrote: post #9

I kind of want these rules to go into effect in the EU just to see what happens. I don't expect good things to happen, but one way or another it would be instructive.

There are some elements of this already; WEEE makes it supposedly slightly more expensive to make disposable products, and a ban on smart cartridges that wear out early without being refillable: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/12/30/eu_tells_hp_et_al/

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#19

Post by taway_1212 »

etix wrote: post #7
conradk wrote: post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

> It's like devices are not even planned to be repaired. They are designed to be sold and then abandoned. That's the real issue. Not cost of repair. Absolutely. Smartphones are the best example, the software makes the hardware unusable or insecure because of the lack of updates pretty quickly.

> the software makes the hardware unusable or insecure because of the lack of updates pretty quickly.

Or, alternatively, the (practically) mandatory updates make the previously perfectly fine phone slow to the point of being unusable.

I'm saying that the updates are practically mandatory because if you don't apply them, your apps gradually stop working (as they cannot talk to their respective server backends, which are being updated without maintaining backcompat) - and of course, the current version of the app requires the current(ish) version of iOS. This all amounts to an engineered obsolescence of millions of perfectly good phones.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#20

Post by oever »

etix wrote: post #7
conradk wrote: post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

> It's like devices are not even planned to be repaired. They are designed to be sold and then abandoned. That's the real issue. Not cost of repair. Absolutely. Smartphones are the best example, the software makes the hardware unusable or insecure because of the lack of updates pretty quickly.

Agreed. Software and hardware should be sold separately.
Post reply on HN