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EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

eubusiness.com

21–30 of 241 posts

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#21
post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

>>I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic.

And the beauty of glue would be everywhere. Glue is such a great engineering tool, easy to apply and no need to worry about repairs ever.

I like repairing my stuff...

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#22

Wages have gone up and consumer goods have gone down in price and build quality. It's not feasible to have a repair business any more. Growing up, there were still loads of repair businesses around. You could fix anything. If build quality and price go up, you can revert to an economy where you would fix your broken appliance once or twice before you replacing it. But what's the incentive for the manufacturers?

Advertising, including Google, will feel the effect of a slower purchasing cycle. Fewer designers (in all industries) to design a lower volume of products. Less money to promote fewer items being sold. On the flipside, larger per-item transaction values.

To add, It doesn't seem like we could go on indefinitely with ephemeral product cycles consuming increasing amounts of natural resources considering the increasing purchasing power of emerging economies.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#23
post #11
post #2

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’…

You probably do not live in Europe (or maybe you just like trolling?). First I am a voter and I do take the EU parliament seriously. I also consider what the groups and candidates voted in the past before giving them my vote - especially on topics like world trade giant agreements (TTIP, TATFA, CETA... - yes they also vote on that and it is very meaningful for our future). You may also read some documentation on the…

> A recent example: the GSM roaming (a former giant cash machine against consumers) just got extinguished within EU countries by EU regulation.

Wasn't that the European Commission (and not Parliament) though? They seem to be significantly more powerful.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#24
post #11
post #2

In other news, the parliament took a vote affirming previous decisions that TV shows should be funnier. ..I guess that was trite. The EU parliament is in a constitutional limbo state. It doesn’t have real power or a predefined legislative jurisdiction, so voters don’t take it seriously. They elect quirky, fring-ey members they wouldn’t elect to their own national parties. I’m in favour of durable products, but I don’…

You probably do not live in Europe (or maybe you just like trolling?). First I am a voter and I do take the EU parliament seriously. I also consider what the groups and candidates voted in the past before giving them my vote - especially on topics like world trade giant agreements (TTIP, TATFA, CETA... - yes they also vote on that and it is very meaningful for our future). You may also read some documentation on the…

How is he trolling by stating the facts? You might wish it were different but the EU Parliament doesn't have any real power. It can call for things all it likes, but it can't make law, which raises the question of why it calls itself a Parliament. The single purpose of a Parliament is to make law, after all.

The wiki page you link to does say that.

Voters have been figuring it out. Turnout for EP elections has been falling steadily since the institution was first created:

http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-tur...

From 62% to around 40% on average. People don't bother voting because the EP can't/won't actually do much except cheerlead for the EU itself and demand it does more.

This sort of story appears from time to time. The EP calls for this, it calls for that. Nobody pays much attention because these "calls" don't matter. The EU's laws can only be changed by the Commission, and EU law is made entirely in secret (unlike every other legislature in the world save North Korea). So there's little point trying to get involved or care what they do - EU law just "appears" fully formed and gets implemented without debate.

https://euobserver.com/institutional/136630

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#25
post #6
post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

It's not "like", they are and they've got a term for it; planned obsolescence.

Rubbish. Planned obsolescence is extremely rare. The low quality of products is because of cost cutting.

Manufacturers design for a minimum lifetime as cheaply as possible. "It must last 2 years. How can we save money?" Virtually nobody is going "It must break after 2 years." Except in a very small number of cases that is conspiracy theory nonsense.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#27
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extending the minimum warranty can help to make more durable products.

The EU already made mandatory 24 months warranty for all products sold in Europe. I think this has been beneficial not only to European citizens but also to the US where there isn't a minimum warranty by default. Businesses who sell products on both sides of the Atlantic seem to have mirrored the imposed warranty of the EU in the US. I am in favor of extending the minimum warranty. PS: isn't there also some regulatio…

Don't forget that the 24 month warranty is one of the stated reasons for justifying the sale price difference for the same product between the US and the EU.

If it's increased, manufacturers will just increase their EU prices so that their costs will be covered.

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#28

Of course, the flipside of this is the flipside of Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness - if the cheap boots that fall apart quickly didn't exist, Sam Vimes would not be able to buy boots at all in the first place. The solution is, of course, to put more people in a position where they can afford to buy the more expensive boots and see the value in doing so.

I am unconvinced that more expensive = better quality for a lot of things these days.

There are some anecdotal examples of people with Miele washing machines that have lasted for decades etc (... as an aside I guess we wont know about today's Miele washing machines for several more years at least ...), but in my experience paying a premium for a product more often than not just gives you an as-cheaply-made product but with a brand name you've heard of. I am very happy to pay for decent stuff, but I am not prepared to pay extra for the same quality stuff just to get a brand name.

What seems to be the biggest problem these days for me is not mechanical failures, but what can only be assumed to be software failures - things just going haywire or flashing an LED/error code and not doing what they should.

Perhaps there is some cheap capacitor that has blown somewhere, but it is often a waffly explanation along the lines of "logic board has failed" (and they are always super-expensive to replace due to it being 10 years old and not made/stocked any more etc etc). It is usually more sensible to replace a 5-15 year old appliance with a new one, rather than buying a spare part that costs 50% of an entire new appliance, (plus then you usually get the benefits of improved energy efficiency)

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#29
This made me think about the lamp that shines for 100 years in a fire department somewhere. It even has a cam http://www.centennialbulb.org/

Now lamps have a limited lifespan because of the manufacturers, so they have more sales.

I think this was the article: http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/history/the-great-lightbu...

Re: EU Parliament calls for longer lifetime for products

#30
post #3

The article says that consumers are discouraged by the cost of repair. A few weeks ago, I repaired an eltronical appliance and was surprised to see that all screws were screwed into plastic. As I unscrewed them to access the inside of the device, the plastic around the screw broke. I think there should be laws that prevent screwing into plastic. That just makes no sense appart from upfront cost. Once the plastic is b…

A law requiring a particular material? Unless it’s health or safety related, no way. The last place I want to see government is regulating how a product must be constructed (unless it’s health or safety critical obviously.)

If you want a device without plastic screw holes, pay more money and find one or make one yourself, market it and sell it to other like-minded people.

If I have a toaster that breaks, the time it would take me to go to a repair shop is more valuable to me than the cost of a new toaster – not to mention the cost of the repair itself.

In China, you often do get smaller appliances repaired because the labor cost is so low. So it makes economic sense to get those kinds of items repaired.

But in France, if I want to get a microwave fixed, the item is either still under warranty or the depreciated value is less than the repair cost. Perhaps if government lowered taxes and relaxed the labor code, then repair shops could charge less and it would incentivize people to get repairs on smaller ticket items rather than buying replacements. But I certainly am not going to spend €65 getting a €150 microwave repaired when the microwave is already several years old. I migh spend €20 for that repair if I really liked the microwave.

I certainly wouldn’t be happy if I had to pay several hundred euros more for a microwave because of a law mandating the type of screw holes that must be used. The increase cost wouldn’t even be in materials as much as the buereaucratic cost of implementing such requirements.

Health and safety regulations – of course. Regulations because you’re unhappy with screw holes? Not a chance.

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