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I'm not a Woman in Tech

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Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#31

> Unpopular opinion: > I think when you're in a minority and you are not rising to the top as fast as you expect, you use your minority as leverage to propel yourself. > I am also in a minority. I've often felt cheated that my career isn't Musk-esque. And sometimes I even ask the question, "Am I being held back because I'm [in my minority]?" Then I snap back to reality. > It's not the minority that holds you back. It…

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Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#32
post #14

There's sexism in tech, and to address it you have to call it for what it is. I'm glad her experiences are such that she hasn't encountered these barriers, but other people have, and they need these words and spaces. Take my previous job. Women were objectified on Slack. A woman was groped, though she didn't report it out of concern for the repercussions. In meetings execs, male execs would only address/look at the m…

I think you're missing the point of the article. It's not that these things don't exist, or didn't exist for her -- of course they do.

The point seems, to me at least, to be that in order to attempt to actually solve these problems you can't actively (or passively) try to exclude yourself from the people causing them.

It's like politics -- if you separate yourself into "us" versus "them", how are you ever supposed to work together to find a solution?

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#33
> Studies are showing that more diverse teams have higher collective intelligence

Absolutely! Discrimination is self-defeating. Why intentionally deprive yourself or your team of resources?

Or, to take a larger perspective, why deprive _humanity_ of resources? Imagine how many more Einsteins we'd have if everyone had the same opportunities.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#34
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching from the sidelines as a white male, I have to say that I find these kinds of situations so confusing. Some people want these differences to be highlighted, while others like yourself want the complete opposite. I'm left believing that my only choice is to have no opinion. Though I lean towards your stance across the board.

> I'm left believing that my only choice is to have no opinion. I learned this lesson a long time ago from the role models in my life that ended up getting burned because of having a differing viewpoint from whatever societal winds were blowing. I, and I realize probably cynically, now only elect to share, post, tweet, or whatnot whatever only can positively benefit my "brand". Sometimes I have to act like my own PR…

Here is the thing. You can have private opinions but when you express them publicly, the larger the audience the larger the chance that someone can totally misinterpret / take out of context / take IN context but write a diatribe against / etc. what you say.

It could be someone who is outraged or someone who actually uses your words to further their ideological agenda against those who are outraged.

In short, the more people see what you say, the more chances that it can run away from under you and distract from your brand and its focus.

That is why Coke executives don't just tweet their personal views on topics, etc. and why politicians stay on message.

Anything you say publicly can and may be used against YOUR GOALS. And maybe against your character.

"Give me six lines written by the most honest man, and I will find something there to hang him. As quoted in Champlain's Dream‎ (2008) by David Hackett Fischer"

And with AI you can probably quote mine anyone like Richelou.

Sometimes, like Trump, the controversy helps attract media attention and you can find a core audience who flocks to you. Then you become a polarizing figure. If that's your way of getting famous, then the price you pay is people quote mining what you say later and you having to filter out people who are constantly lining up to debate you and take you down.

Trump has been able to sidestep the parsing of his words by not standing for anything and being so willing to change with the wind and just say so much random stuff, while at the same time saying what enough people want to hear that he totally polarized the country.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#35

There's an interesting dichotomy on the "women in tech" question between "SV tech" and non-SV tech. I briefly worked at a tech company making oil industry software in .NET in a Houston suburb. Not trendy, cubicles, but they paid fine (and unlike my current job the office was quiet). I quickly noticed that half of my coworkers were not only women, but a lot were people of color and older (I actually think I was the on…

Absolutely. People are rarely willing to talk about class in these discussions, but the reality is that not only have we created an industry with a gender imbalance, we've created an industry with a culture that prioritises the values of one class (middle/upper-class urban men) over everything else. Thus you have 'casual' workplaces with games consoles, beer, lame forced socialising, chill zones etc in which some people feel comfortable and others feel thoroughly excluded from.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#36
As a queer woman in tech... I feel this so much.

I don't really know where to sit on this. It's a bit confusing for me. I understand the need for "X minority group in tech" events, I really do. I think it helps newcomers and people who feel like they're at the fringe find a community.

At the same time, I DO find it a little weird at times to go to "LGBTQ-only", "Asian-only", or "women-only" events. It just kind of reminds me of... this reverse-frat mentality.

Going to events with ONE homogenous group just really skeezes me out for some reason.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#37
> Don’t we all, in theory, have the same possibilities for succeeding in tech?

In theory, with all else being equal, yes. But all else isn't equal and we all don't have the same possibilities (orders of magnitudes of difference, I'd say.)

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#38
She makes a good point when she says "I’m already here, people. So I’m not the problem you’re trying to solve."

I think what a lot of these kinds of posts miss is that efforts to bring women into tech generally aren't aimed at the kind of women who have always done tech, have always wanted to do tech, and participate in the tech community despite their gender. Those women are the die-hards who largely will ignore gender barriers because of their enthusiasm for the field. But if we want to improve the gender ratio we have to think about how to appeal to the women who don't fall into that category too.

I do consider myself a "woman in tech" but that doesn't mean I want special treatment. I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by smart, passionate people of all genders and don't really suffer much sexism with regards to my work. What I do want is more women colleagues and I support initiatives aiming to achieve that.

Full disclosure: I run a student branch of the Women's Engineering Society here in the UK, although we are far from a women's only group. Most of our events are about 50/50.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#39
post #14

There's sexism in tech, and to address it you have to call it for what it is. I'm glad her experiences are such that she hasn't encountered these barriers, but other people have, and they need these words and spaces. Take my previous job. Women were objectified on Slack. A woman was groped, though she didn't report it out of concern for the repercussions. In meetings execs, male execs would only address/look at the m…

I think you're missing the point of the article. It's not that these things don't exist, or didn't exist for her -- of course they do. The point seems, to me at least, to be that in order to attempt to actually solve these problems you can't actively (or passively) try to exclude yourself from the people causing them. It's like politics -- if you separate yourself into "us" versus "them", how are you ever supposed to…

Sort of. The point of the article seems to be more along the lines of "Different people are different. Please don't force your labels onto me."

I didn't get the sense that she's trying to change anything. She's just trying to be a person.

Re: I'm not a Woman in Tech

#40

Okay, so here is the thing: nobody wants to make the labels explicit, or to think about the minority or female labels. The reason that has come into style is because people have implicit associations and biases. And the theory is the best way to deal with them is to explicitly think about it. Example. You're hiring for a position. It is very technical. You see a bunch of candidates and then you just think some would…

>Now you reread the resume only focusing on the actual skills and you find that some of the people you rejected have stronger technical skills but you unconsciously downplayed it because of the female name.

Wasn't there a recent study that removing names led to the percentage of men being interviewed increasing?

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