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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#261

Post by matwood »

DanBC wrote: post #184
seanwilson wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And bitch all you want about "western medicine", but if you have a heart attack, or need a kidney transplant, or break a bone - you're probably going to choose the western system. I always find it weird that people can't see alternative medicine is only used by advocates on problems than tend to come and go by themselves or are susceptible to placebo effect but any time something serious comes up like the problems…

You're pretty sniffy about the effects of long term pain which can be debilitating, even life threatening. Some people who die by suicide were in long term pain. And here's a large, we'll run, study showing acupuncture is more effective than sham accupuncture https://discover.dc.nihr.ac.uk/portal/article/4000672/acupun...

> And here's a large, we'll run, study showing acupuncture is more effective than sham accupuncture

And still not clinically significant.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#262

Post by DanBC »

DanBC wrote: post #191
seanwilson wrote: post #45

I thought this community would be more scientific...instead of anecdotes I'd rather see links to rigorous studies e.g. showing acupuncture or chiropractors work especially since these two forms of intervention have been subjected to decades of research already, have no plausible scientific basis and claim to treat many more things besides back pain. They should be held to the same standards as other medicine.

Here's a recent good study from a reputable source showing acupuncture is more effective than placebo for some types of long term pain. I agree that it's frustrating to see so much anecdote in threads like these. https://discover.dc.nihr.ac.uk/portal/article/4000672/acupun... ? Kindutm_content=buffered7fb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

How the fuck is this downvoted?

NIHR (National Institute of Health Research) is the research arm of the English NHS.

https://discover.dc.nihr.ac.uk/portal/article/4000672/acupun...

> Acupuncture shown to have benefits for treatment of some chronic pain

> Published on 20 June 2017

> Acupuncture is not a placebo for treatment of chronic pain. This NIHR-funded systematic review shows that acupuncture is better than usual care and sham acupuncture for pain from musculoskeletal conditions, knee osteoarthritis and chronic headache.

> This NIHR review was large with over 140 trials overall, and the direct comparison with sham acupuncture helps to address uncertainty around whether acupuncture gives clinical benefit above a “placebo effect.” Acupuncture had a smaller effect on pain when compared with sham acupuncture than when compared with no acupuncture, but both comparisons showed statistically significant differences. Acupuncture also improved quality of life compared with standard care and was assessed to be a good use of NHS resources.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#263

Post by yarek »

femto wrote: post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

Is your doc Sydney based? Mind sharing the contact info?

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#264

Post by mirimir »

panglott wrote: post #254
mirimir wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been strong selection, I suspect, for overeating when food is available. Also for focusing utilization on essential stuff when it's limited.

It's not mere availability of food. Obesity rates vary quite widely across OECD countries; the US is at 35%, France/Italy/Spain are at about 5-10%, Korea is below 4%. Overeating is a stress response for a lot of people, and overeating often occurs among people in high-stress situations. The US is a country that tolerates a very high level of poverty, inequality, and insecurity, and this results in high obesity rates…

Those are good points. Heavy marketing of highly processed food that's loaded with fat and sugars is also an issue. Maybe also because that crap is relatively inexpensive.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#266

Post by peteretep »

sundvor wrote: post #26

I'm a programmer, always at the desk. Back problems came on in my mid/late thirties, as I let my physique go. Once I started squatting in early 40s, back pain has largely subsided. Only reoccurred when I got too optimistic regarding my training, after a break. Have now fixed that by learning to train in moderation / be more consistent - as I get older, there really is no excuse good enough for not going. So yes: Lear…

Been squatting for years, and finally got around to dropping the weight 50% and attempting to work back with perfect form. A bunch of flexibility and pain issues have disappeared as if by magic

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#267

Post by peteretep »

jackweirdy wrote: post #8
SilasX wrote: post #3

>Also consider this: In a poll at a 2009 conference in Bonita Springs, Florida, 99 out of 100 surgeons who were asked whether they’d elect to have lumbar fusion surgery if it were recommended to them said “absolutely not.” Wow. They charge $80k for a surgery they wouldn't even use themselves for the very condition they recommend it for? To reverse the famous quote: "you know what they call ineffective procedures that…

Similarly I fractured my foot out here in the US and a podiatrist told me it absolutely needed surgery. I flew home to have an orthopaedic surgeon look at it in the UK, they gave me one of those plastic ankle boots, and told me to slowly ease back into walking over the course of a month.

NHS doctors as gatekeepers works both ways. I've had to beg and beg for referrals to specialists for things that clearly required them before. Once you get past that stage though, care is top notch.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#268

Post by Nav_Panel »

croon wrote: post #209
nradov wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people consider mild hunger to be something that seriously impacts their quality of life? Hunger is the natural state of all animals.

This is something I've realized as well, AFTER losing weight. It's very difficult to convey the differences between "real hunger" (when you need energy) and "fake hunger" (you want to eat crap because you haven't for a bit) to someone who hasn't gone through that. I think this is an issue everyone needs to learn themselves. At this point I actually like the feeling of lingering hunger, I focus better, probably a hunt…

I think there are more types of hunger than just "real" and "fake". The body has needs and you can attune yourself to them. "Cravings" seem to be real psychological signals for certain sorts of nutrition. I've been trying to pay closer attention to them ever since losing a significant amount of weight on keto a few years ago and starting to exercise more seriously.

For example, after a strength workout, I experience a different kind of hunger than "morning hunger" (protein craving, the urge very consistently appears about a half hour after my workout, vs something small to start the day), which is in itself distinct from hunger around lunchtime (habit-formed hunger, you ate at this time yesterday). Also, thirst sometimes seems to manifest itself as another sort of hunger, or else a craving for salt/electrolytes (especially after a sweaty cardio workout).

Listening to your body is a curious exercise to do while you're sick. Your body really tells you what you need, if you're willing to listen. But too often it's like, well, you have this lunch meeting, and you're not hungry but you can't miss it/don't want to miss the social interaction. And suddenly you're ignoring your body again and eating because it's convenient...

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#269

Post by panglott »

qazpot wrote: post #159
femto wrote: post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

I have also found sleeping on a hard floor very effective in preventing back pain.

Laying on a hard floor with my arms above my head has been my near-term way of coping with back pain. But a little isometric back strength exercises like a nightly plank have helped with prevention over the past few weeks.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#270

Post by kulu2002 »

croon wrote: post #209
nradov wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people consider mild hunger to be something that seriously impacts their quality of life? Hunger is the natural state of all animals.

This is something I've realized as well, AFTER losing weight. It's very difficult to convey the differences between "real hunger" (when you need energy) and "fake hunger" (you want to eat crap because you haven't for a bit) to someone who hasn't gone through that. I think this is an issue everyone needs to learn themselves. At this point I actually like the feeling of lingering hunger, I focus better, probably a hunt…

There is difference between 'Hunger' and 'Appetite'... A simple solution prescribed by my physician was 'just sip warm water (not too hot)' and if your stomach feels good, it was your appetite which got satiated at that time DON'T EAT anything. After 1/2 sips if there is still feeling of emptiness, it means your body really needs something.
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