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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#142
This "back exercise for posture" video was the first one I ever favorited on Youtube. It's helpful for anyone like me who is doing zero today. Kind of a "YTWL" reaching your elbows behind your back. (I did them standing facing a wall, less crushing.)

https://youtu.be/bCMNMHBY1Dk?t=46s

I wanted to share this as a first-step, almost as easy as nothing type of thing that could help someone considering a more serious commitment to "real" exercise.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#143
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, cancer treatment has made huge progress in the last decade or so. Melanoma, in particular, has gone from a virtual death sentence to being one of the more treatable forms. The idea that we haven't found "the cure" to cancer is silly because cancer isn't one disease, it's many, down to the point of everyone's cancer being genetically different, and in fact different cancer cells being genetically different w…

I'm not going to argue against the complexity of cancer, just as the effects of a complex system is more complicated compared to the inputs (i.e. a fractal). What is not emphasized is nutrition, environmental toxins, bioaccumulative effects of "safe" compounds that we interact with daily (plastics, chemicals, hormonal (estrogen) mimickers, Electromagnetic pollution, Stress, side effects of drugs) & their effects thro…

"Electromagnetic pollution"? Are you seriously arguing wifi causes cancer?

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#144
post #30
post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

I'll vouch for the effectiveness of losing 30+kg (65+lb). Which only reduces the back pain problem for overweight people to a known-intractable weight loss problem... :-/

Weight loss isn't "known intractable". Physically it's very simple, if an overweight person is physically prevented from eating too much, they'll lose weight, just like physically it's very simple to quit addictive drugs.

And the drug analogy is a good one, because just like quitting drugs, you can't quit overeating (barring the aforementioned option of someone physically preventing you from doing so - which is literally what gastric sleeve surgery and the like are doing) until you actually choose to. When you wake up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror, and instead of "oh I'm so fat" or "it's not fair" or "I wish I could lose weight", you think "I choose to lose weight by controlling what I eat", then you lose weight. And it stays off for as long as your choice holds.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#145

Oh, but the subscriptions continue. They "cure a disease" with vaccines my friend...In fact they increase as vaccines are compulsively imposed on almost everybody...Note that the vaccine manufactures are immune from liability, so a vaccine is a perfect injection point for bioaccumulative toxins which create more future customers. > Indeed, and it is surely for the same reason that there isn't yet a pill I can take to…

If you can provide any proof that vaccines cause long term diseases in any significant rate, I would appreciate it.

I can't respond to the original comment anymore, but I'll just throw it under yours because it tipped me enough over the edge that I thought I would respond.

To help provide some counterpoints:

> The National Childhood Vaccine Act limits the liability of vaccine manufactures from claims. There is a separate fund which pays off families whose children were injured by a vaccine.

Read the background section of this wikipedia article, to better understand the reasons why the act exists in the first place. Additionally, look through some of the other provisions of the act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Inj...

The way I see it, and with the supreme court decision in Bruesewitz v. Wyeth, yes, vaccine makers are protected from some liability. However, there is nothing stopping someone from suing in federal court, and any attorney's fees during "Vaccine Court" are paid for by the government due to the Vaccine Injury Fund.

> Several CDC & industry whistle-blowers reported rigged scientific studies re: MMR & other vaccine effects. Why would these people ruin their nice jobs & face public scrutiny to blow the whistle if there were not a moral reason to do so?

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

Maybe Snopes is too mainstream for some readers, and therefore can't be taken seriously. My guess however is that they're more right than they are wrong. Additionally, they link to the CDC statement that has instructions to view the data that was "rigged" according to the whistleblowers (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Autism/cdc2004ped...), in case you don't believe Snopes. Make sure you "approach this like an investigator," by looking at primary sources instead of naturalnews.com

> Studies indicating that Unvaccinated Children are Healthier than Vaccinated Children

Just so everyone can see the abstract and the research methods including data collection: https://i0.wp.com/www.skepticalraptor.com/blog/wp-content/up...

Now, I'm not the best researcher, but I feel like I would have picked a more representative group than just homeschooled children (maybe they were the only groups of mothers that would complete a survey? Unlikely, I would imagine that I could get more than 600 responders from a far larger group). Additionally, I found it interesting that the results stated the odds-ratio for preterm birth + vaccination -> NDD (autism), but not the odds-ratio for vaccination - preterm birth -> NDD. I get that the authors are trying to tell a compelling story in the abstract to get more people to read it, but I'd argue that it is frowned upon to "lead" the reader that way without them having seen any of the data. If anyone has the actual paper, I would appreciate a link!

> President Trump commissioned a panel headed by Robert Kennedy & supported by Robert De Niro (a vocal critic of Trump whose child has been injured by vaccines)

Not sure what you're trying to prove with this one. If you can explain further, I'd appreciate it.

> Propaganda/Public Relations campaigns directed at any skeptic of vaccines. You know the dreaded "anti-vaxxers". If there were no culpability, why would there be such heavy Progadanga demonizing people from exercising their free speech? Bill Nye wants anti-vaxxers to be killed. Penn & Teller seemed zealously angry in their video against the evil "anti-vaxxers". Why such a harsh response? Is this not similar to the Catholic Inquisitions where the religious hegemony was challenged by esoteric & scientific belief?

Could an easier explanation exist for why there is such a harsh response? That maybe people don't want children to die unnecessarily? That's my reasoning, at least. Unpopular opinion: I'd much rather my child have autism than die of a disease that could be vaccinated against.

> Anecdotal evidence/videos of many people who have suffered injuries from vaccines. This is not limited to autism. I personally know a few people who have been injured (mainly from the East Coast). Before you write them off, these people seem quite convinced over the causes of their injuries. There is little motivation to be reporting such causes. It's important to elevate direct reports, as there is a heavy vested interest in spinning stories (similar to blaming the rape victim).

It's unfortunate that people are suffering these injuries. However, let's break this down a little. In the healthimpactnews.com link you showed, the report of injuries caused by vaccines notes a lot of guillan barre syndrome cases. Influenza and things like a GI infection (campylobacter) are known to cause GBS. So is the influenza vaccine, but the benefits far outweigh this risk. This is because even with the risk of GBS cases from the vaccine itself, it lowers the overall risk for GBS due to people not getting influenza. This link goes into more detail and has sources with data: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/765744?pa=43IhRB6hh0hnsz... (apologies if this link doesn't load in advance, medscape sometimes requires a login)

I can't speak much for the other settlements in that healthimpactnews article, as I'm just not that knowledgeable about those vaccines or diseases. I could claim something like "varicella vaccine is a live attenuated virus, so there is obviously a risk of shingles" or "lupus is common enough that it could just be coincidence that someone with the HPV vaccine would get lupus" but the truth is that we really don't know from the data presented in that article.

> Measles outbreaks where those infected had the measles vaccine. I thought the value proposition of vaccines was inoculation for life?

That's definitely not what I've ever been told about vaccines...We get booster shots for a reason. Hell, I had the varicella vaccine again two years ago for school. Also, note that this report is from 1984, and the measles vaccine has gotten a bit better since then. However, measles is pretty virulent, so the vaccine isn't 100% effective, more like 97%.

> Mercury & other compounds found in the vaccines. Independent labs have analyzed harmful bioaccumulative compounds in vaccines.

The link you have is about glyphosate. Even if you think glyphosate is dangerous for your health, the small amounts of it in vaccines that you take rarely compared to the massive amounts in daily food and drink makes it hard for me to worry. As for the mercury and other compounds, I honestly don't know. I do however know that the MMR vaccine never had thimerosal to begin with, so take that for what you will.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#146
post #70
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not work? But except for the parent and a lot of other people.

Seriously. I always roll my eyes when somebody claims that acupuncture "doesn't work," because it's worked for me on multiple occasions. Typically, it comes from people who have never tried it. A little over four years ago, I had a ton of shoulder pain. I went to two doctors, had an MRI scan, and was prescribed physical therapy. After all of that, I was still in pain, and neither of the doctors could figure out why,…

Seriously. I always roll my eyes when somebody claims that acupuncture "does work," because the placebo effect worked for them on multiple occasions. Typically, it comes from people who don't want to admit they were cured by a placebo, otherwise it would work all the time, for everyone.

There, fixed it for you.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#147
post #135

The thing is, when you've seen one back problem, you've see one back problem. The spine is a maddeningly complex assembly of bone, nerves, cartilage, articular surfaces, vasculature, packed tightly, subjected to immense forces, and articulable is many directions. It is a miracle of evolutionary engineering and a miserable failure. We needed to crawl longer before we stood up and walked as a species. I have been throu…

I'd love some help. How did you find someone who could actually give you some sort of prognosis/diagnoses? Mine just say either "more PT" or "here's some pills." Neither work. My disc is budged and it seems like moving the wrong way will trigger 2-3 days of intense pain and immobility. No one seems to offer any suggestions on how to fix it. Is it fixable? I don't know... P.S. the back pain industry is a sham, but the…

My number one advice is to not accept "No". Someone out there has an answer for you. Keep asking, educating yourself, searching.

Dr. Srinivasan in Seattle did my spinal fusion. She's the best. http://seattleneuro.com/about_dr-srinivasan/

If you are trying to find a neurosurgeon near you... Ask Srinivasan for a referral. Or find other doctors that learned, practiced, taught where she did (birds of a feather).

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#148
post #144
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll vouch for the effectiveness of losing 30+kg (65+lb). Which only reduces the back pain problem for overweight people to a known-intractable weight loss problem... :-/

Weight loss isn't "known intractable". Physically it's very simple, if an overweight person is physically prevented from eating too much, they'll lose weight, just like physically it's very simple to quit addictive drugs. And the drug analogy is a good one, because just like quitting drugs, you can't quit overeating (barring the aforementioned option of someone physically preventing you from doing so - which is liter…

It is not physically simple to quit addictive drugs. It depends on the drug. Even alcohol is not simple to quit, depending on the person: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#149
post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

Piggybacking on this - basic mobility exercises can free up a lot of your muscles from regular pain. You end up doing this a lot when you go see a physical therapist. This was part of the reason we bootstrapped our app - MoveWellApp.com - to give people easy-to-understand routines to stay mobile and pain free at home. It's a free download at http://MoveWellApp.com/download for iOS, so if you have any specific feedbac…

No comment to its quality, but it's pretty ballsy to piggy-back on a thread talking about a $100B/yr industry being "mostly a scam" to promote your app :)

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to argue against the complexity of cancer, just as the effects of a complex system is more complicated compared to the inputs (i.e. a fractal). What is not emphasized is nutrition, environmental toxins, bioaccumulative effects of "safe" compounds that we interact with daily (plastics, chemicals, hormonal (estrogen) mimickers, Electromagnetic pollution, Stress, side effects of drugs) & their effects thro…

"Electromagnetic pollution"? Are you seriously arguing wifi causes cancer?

Being charitable, he might mean sunlight.
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