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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#61

Post by tptacek »

briantakita wrote: post #56
tptacek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument has always seemed pretty silly to me. Why, if this is how the market for medical services worked, would medical services cure any problem, when they could find ways to milk those problems for recurring revenue? Why aren't malaria or stomach ulcers "chronic manageable illnesses", rather than curable ones?

It's funny that we have billions poured into cancer research yet we still can't find that cure. I guess we need another cure cancer walkathon with pink ribbons cause those smart scientists almost have that cure... Perhaps there is a cure (or at least the causes are well-known), but it's being withheld from the public. Why would we ever want to fix problems that employ so many people & give them nice houses & yachts?

Indeed, and it is surely for the same reason that there isn't yet a pill I can take to make me 7'5" tall.

But of course we're left with the same conundrum: why has the modern pharmaceutical industry cured any disease? Every time they do, they kill another cash cow.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#62

Post by pavel_lishin »

siquick wrote: post #51
erentz wrote: post #47

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

>>Acupuncture should, ideally, be tested separately for effectiveness for each individual condition for which it has been proposed (like so many other forms of alternative medicine, that is a very large number). Good quality trials have not been done for all of them, but results suggest strongly that it is unlikely that acupuncture works for rheumatoid arthritis, stopping smoking, irritable bowel syndrome, or for los…

First, you're taking a god-of-the-gaps approach to acupuncture. "It hasn't been proven to be ineffective for condition X, so keep your mind open!"

Second, they have run good trials on many of the conditions acupuncture claims to cure. You picked the one paragraph that might be interpreted to support your claim:

> It's a shame that Western science seems so intent on dismissing non-western treatments and techniques, rather than committing to running the same detailed trials that they do on profitable drugs.

So here's a few quotes that contradict you, all from the same article:

> after decades of research and more than 3000 trials, acupuncture researchers have failed to reject the null hypothesis, and any remaining possible specific effect from acupuncture is so tiny as to be clinically insignificant.

> Large multicenter clinical trials conducted in Germany7–10 and the United States11 consistently revealed that verum (or true) acupuncture and sham acupuncture treatments are no different in decreasing pain levels across multiple chronic pain disorders: migraine, tension headache, low back pain, and osteoarthritis of the knee.

> Vickers et al.14 did a meta-analysis for 29 randomized controlled trials, with 17,922 patients. The patients were being treated for a variety of chronic pain conditions. The results were very similar to those of Madsen et al.12Real acupuncture was better than sham but by a tiny amount that lacked any clinical significance.

There's no reason to not try acupuncture, if you've got the money for it, I guess. It's not likely to hurt you. But don't disregard other treatments.

And bitch all you want about "western medicine", but if you have a heart attack, or need a kidney transplant, or break a bone - you're probably going to choose the western system.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#63

Post by hpcjoe »

femto wrote: post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

I've had back pain on and off over the years. Usually due to muscle cramping from poor posture. I had to make a conscious effort not to slouch at my desk.

What I've found helps with back pain, sciatica, knee pain, are stretches, and free weights. Then again, I've been lifting for about 41 years, so its not a surprise to me that changing my regimen provides positive outcomes.

Specifically, for me, dead lifts for lower back, squats and leg presses for legs and knees.

Speak to your physician first about whether you can do this. Speak to a PT person about what stretches/weights you should do, and what you should avoid.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#64

Post by tarr11 »

tootie wrote: post #50
nas wrote: post #9

Here's some free advice. When your back bothers you, try some jogging. If you can't jog, walk. Taking it "easy" by laying around is not the cure. I'm pretty sure the vast number of back problems are caused by too much sitting and lying down.

Jogging or long walks is the one thing that causes back pain for me.

Consider your shoes, more supportive shoes may help on long walks. I over pronate, and when my sneakers are at all worn down, I start to have back pain.

Also, jogging or running would often make things much worse for me.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#65

Post by briantakita »

Oh, but the subscriptions continue. They "cure a disease" with vaccines my friend...In fact they increase as vaccines are compulsively imposed on almost everybody...Note that the vaccine manufactures are immune from liability, so a vaccine is a perfect injection point for bioaccumulative toxins which create more future customers.

> Indeed, and it is surely for the same reason that there isn't yet a pill I can take to make me 7'5" tall.

That's a non-sequitur. There's natural law.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#66

Post by ClassyJacket »

jimmaswell wrote: post #59
Godel_unicode wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would anyone ever fix it in a for-profit system? For the same reason any other problem gets solved in a for-profit system; the best solver of problems will be the best getter of dollars. See for instance Apple, Honda, Nike, Harvard, etc.

Apple kickstarted the smartphone market with one good product and went downhill from there in terms of making anything worth buying. Otherwise the only problem they're best at solving is marketing. Apple actually supports the argument. Why innovate when you can make more profit removing functionality and releasing new colors while coasting on brand recognition?

A wilfully ignorant an elitist view of why people buy Apple products. A logical fallacy that anyone who makes a different decision to you is less intelligent than you.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#67

Post by fizixer »

memracom wrote: post #38

I've kept back pain at bay with a simple 3-point plan. Sleep on an uncomfortable bed with a firm surface and a thin futon for padding. Sit on uncomfortable chairs, mostly the wooden kitchen chair type. Lift free weights, i.e. barbells or kettle bells. No levers and pulley systems. The weight has to be free to fall and hurt you. Just never overdo it so that it never does fall like that. Works for me, probably because…

That makes two of us (my comment is along the same lines).

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#68

Post by hpcjoe »

fizixer wrote: post #54

Advice on back pain based on personal evidence (single data point). - Did squats and deadlifts for the first time at age 33. Did them for 1 year. At age 36, again did them for 3 months. (I'll get back into it again once I'm done with my current hectic schedule. Planning on doing at least 3-6 months every year). - Here's how I sleep: No mattress. I create layers out of (bottom to top): - Solid floor, - Carpet or rug,…

One important point about this. I've been lifting for 41 years now. Mostly on, with some off (end of grad school until my daughter was born, and some other intervals).

Be careful with on/off/on type modes. Squats and deadlifts will stretch large muscle groups. You can tear these more easily as you get older.

I know. I am recovering from hernia surgery 8 weeks ago. I was doing my normal leg press and squat portion of my routine. I didn't feel anything tear. Though I was pushing about 600lbs on the leg press. 2 days later I am in the ER with severe pain.

Granted, I am not a spring chicken, but I've found that after I crossed 35, my injuries took longer to heal. And if I took time off from my routines, I had to start building back up.

I started that building back up (only 9 weeks off so far, but still, I don't want it to be longer) yesterday and today.

Just saying, be careful. I think of myself as a kid. My body thinks other things.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#69

Post by erentz »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #62
siquick wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Acupuncture should, ideally, be tested separately for effectiveness for each individual condition for which it has been proposed (like so many other forms of alternative medicine, that is a very large number). Good quality trials have not been done for all of them, but results suggest strongly that it is unlikely that acupuncture works for rheumatoid arthritis, stopping smoking, irritable bowel syndrome, or for los…

First, you're taking a god-of-the-gaps approach to acupuncture. "It hasn't been proven to be ineffective for condition X, so keep your mind open!" Second, they have run good trials on many of the conditions acupuncture claims to cure. You picked the one paragraph that might be interpreted to support your claim: > It's a shame that Western science seems so intent on dismissing non-western treatments and techniques, ra…

> There's no reason to not try acupuncture, if you've got the money for it, I guess. It's not likely to hurt you.

Make sure they wipe the injection sites with alcohol and use properly sterilized or disposable needles. (Give it with the same expectations you have for an injection.)

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#70

Post by grardb »

mamcx wrote: post #58
erentz wrote: post #47

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

Not work? But except for the parent and a lot of other people.

Seriously. I always roll my eyes when somebody claims that acupuncture "doesn't work," because it's worked for me on multiple occasions. Typically, it comes from people who have never tried it.

A little over four years ago, I had a ton of shoulder pain. I went to two doctors, had an MRI scan, and was prescribed physical therapy. After all of that, I was still in pain, and neither of the doctors could figure out why, so I decided to try acupuncture for the first time. I went to Chinatown, got needles put in me, and got some electricity sent to my shoulder. I left the shop about 30 minutes later, and about 70% of my pain was gone. I woke up with next morning with only a tiny bit of pain left.

The pain didn't come back, even after months. I eventually found a doctor who figured out what was wrong, and through a better round of physical therapy, I was able to eradicate my shoulder pain permanently.

Maybe acupuncture didn't solve my problems completely, and of course it doesn't work for everything (e.g. weight loss, cancer, etc.), but to simply say that it "doesn't work" is ludicrous.

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