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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

qz.com

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#51

Post by siquick »

erentz wrote: post #47

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

>>Acupuncture should, ideally, be tested separately for effectiveness for each individual condition for which it has been proposed (like so many other forms of alternative medicine, that is a very large number). Good quality trials have not been done for all of them, but results suggest strongly that it is unlikely that acupuncture works for rheumatoid arthritis, stopping smoking, irritable bowel syndrome, or for losing weight. There is also no good reason to think it works for addictions, asthma, chronic pain, depression, insomnia, neck pain, shoulder pain or frozen shoulder, osteoarthritis of the knee, sciatica, stroke or tinnitus, and many other conditions.18The key part of that paragraph being "Good quality trials have not been done for all of them".

It's a shame that Western science seems so intent on dismissing non-western treatments and techniques, rather than committing to running the same detailed trials that they do on profitable drugs.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#53

Post by joelrunyon »

femto wrote: post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

Piggybacking on this - basic mobility exercises can free up a lot of your muscles from regular pain. You end up doing this a lot when you go see a physical therapist.

This was part of the reason we bootstrapped our app - MoveWellApp.com - to give people easy-to-understand routines to stay mobile and pain free at home.

It's a free download at http://MoveWellApp.com/download for iOS, so if you have any specific feedback, I'd love to hear it.

/blatant-self-promotion

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#54

Post by fizixer »

Advice on back pain based on personal evidence (single data point).

- Did squats and deadlifts for the first time at age 33. Did them for 1 year. At age 36, again did them for 3 months. (I'll get back into it again once I'm done with my current hectic schedule. Planning on doing at least 3-6 months every year).

- Here's how I sleep: No mattress. I create layers out of (bottom to top):

  - Solid floor,
  - Carpet or rug,
  - Gym mat,
  - Thick korean type blanket (mink blanket?), folded twice or thrice,
  - a comforter folded twice,
  - Regular bed sheet
This makes a layer soft enough so I can sleep, but still stiff enough that I can feel the floor.

In addition, I take two large towels, each twisted into a thick rope, then rolled into something resembling a cinnamon roll. One supports my back, one my tummy/abs area. When I lie upright, they're on my left and right. When I lie on the side, one is next to my back and one in the front next to my abs. Every time I twist or turn while sleeping, I've developed a habit of pulling both in to keep them packed tight next to my body.

I'm 39 now. Have been sitting in front of a computer all day for the last 20 years. Never experienced back pain.

Disclaimer: try this at your own risk.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#55

Post by joelrunyon »

andreyf wrote: post #6

On the flip side, I had lower back pain of varying intensity for about two years before it got really bad really suddenly and I went to someone recommended by someone knowledgeable in the subject who fixed it in about 30 minutes of some serious stretching and twisting and turning [1]. Two months with not a hint of pain and I'm pretty sure this is yet another example of the medical industry being incentivized into ign…

The problem with doing exercises is it's not as simple as a pill or a surgery - it's a lifestyle change.

Don't want to spam HN with this as I mentioned it earlier, but this is one of the issues we're trying to address with http://MoveWellApp.com - which is basically a personal mobility coach.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#56

Post by briantakita »

tptacek wrote: post #23
andreyf wrote: post #6

On the flip side, I had lower back pain of varying intensity for about two years before it got really bad really suddenly and I went to someone recommended by someone knowledgeable in the subject who fixed it in about 30 minutes of some serious stretching and twisting and turning [1]. Two months with not a hint of pain and I'm pretty sure this is yet another example of the medical industry being incentivized into ign…

This argument has always seemed pretty silly to me. Why, if this is how the market for medical services worked, would medical services cure any problem, when they could find ways to milk those problems for recurring revenue? Why aren't malaria or stomach ulcers "chronic manageable illnesses", rather than curable ones?

It's funny that we have billions poured into cancer research yet we still can't find that cure.

I guess we need another cure cancer walkathon with pink ribbons cause those smart scientists almost have that cure...

Perhaps there is a cure (or at least the causes are well-known), but it's being withheld from the public. Why would we ever want to fix problems that employ so many people & give them nice houses & yachts?

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#57

Post by pcurve »

erentz wrote: post #47

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

Sure it does, if not for most, for a lot of people anyway, even if it is hard to explain how.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_acupuncture_trials

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/acupuncture-provid...

The site you provided is run by a small group of doctors who seem to have beef with acupuncture, judging by their tone. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/category/acupuncture/

A lot of western folks who get acupuncture treatment do so with great deal of skepticism. Despite that, it's gaining traction in the West. Why? Because it works pretty well for some people.

I wouldn't dismiss it as a sham.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#59

Post by jimmaswell »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #37
andreyf wrote: post #6

On the flip side, I had lower back pain of varying intensity for about two years before it got really bad really suddenly and I went to someone recommended by someone knowledgeable in the subject who fixed it in about 30 minutes of some serious stretching and twisting and turning [1]. Two months with not a hint of pain and I'm pretty sure this is yet another example of the medical industry being incentivized into ign…

> why would anyone ever fix it in a for-profit system? For the same reason any other problem gets solved in a for-profit system; the best solver of problems will be the best getter of dollars. See for instance Apple, Honda, Nike, Harvard, etc.

Apple kickstarted the smartphone market with one good product and went downhill from there in terms of making anything worth buying. Otherwise the only problem they're best at solving is marketing.

Apple actually supports the argument. Why innovate when you can make more profit removing functionality and releasing new colors while coasting on brand recognition?

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#60

Post by minipci1321 »

Some personal evidence: I obtained relief by installing a traction bar high enough my feet don't touch the ground, and remaining suspended for some time, a few times a day every day. It took me a couple of years to develop forearm muscles strong enough to withstand more than 30 sec, and to learn to fully relax the back so it stretches freely. Particularly effective when coupled with a warming up (at the beginning, from simply walking a few miles, couldn't do much else). Can now even do that when crises arise (even when cannot easily walk). Works also in the morning on cold muscles, but some small tendinitis In elbows can follow.

In this part of the world, insurance-covered doctors are very sceptical when you turn in with the back pain, and physio offer very basic things, no real relief.

I did take a scanner and other tests, to evaluate the situation.

Disclaimer: this is not a medical advice, I am not a doctor, "back pain" is a very broad definition.

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