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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#41

Post by femto »

bigiain wrote: post #30
femto wrote: post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

I'll vouch for the effectiveness of losing 30+kg (65+lb). Which only reduces the back pain problem for overweight people to a known-intractable weight loss problem... :-/

Agree that weight/load is an issue. In my experience, a measurable side effect of a daily routine is some weight loss, which if nothing else provides motivation for continuing.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#43

Post by cmurf »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #37
andreyf wrote: post #6

On the flip side, I had lower back pain of varying intensity for about two years before it got really bad really suddenly and I went to someone recommended by someone knowledgeable in the subject who fixed it in about 30 minutes of some serious stretching and twisting and turning [1]. Two months with not a hint of pain and I'm pretty sure this is yet another example of the medical industry being incentivized into ign…

> why would anyone ever fix it in a for-profit system? For the same reason any other problem gets solved in a for-profit system; the best solver of problems will be the best getter of dollars. See for instance Apple, Honda, Nike, Harvard, etc.

Except that's not what's happening. There's a massive pile of patients who will try literally anything, they are a price and solution inelastic market, and like they say, there's a sucker born every minute. Except the sucker is a patient that isn't ever allowed, by this particular market, to get a refund for bad advice and procedures. You have to basically be injured by the doctor to have standing to sue.

The idea of health care as a product like a jug of milk is just ignorant, idealist, nonsense.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#44

Post by dirkg »

In my experience in the US you are much more likely to be 'sold' on unneeded medication and services vs getting an accurate meaningful diagnosis and course of treatment, when it comes to a whole host of problems but esp w.r.t physical injuries, rehab etc.

90% of the doctors you see will have no clue about treatments you can find in a 5min search on youtube. I don't mean hack treatments or miracle cures but basic physiotherapy, prevention etc.

Overprescription and unnecessary procedures are the norm. Patients are milked for money rather than being treated. The fear of litigation and desire to make a profit are the primary factors, not patient health.

I've suffered multiple sports related injuries. Consulted a number of doctors, out of pocket and covered by insurance. The physiotherapy they recommend is almost always the most basic and didn't do much. Doctors refuse to discuss other options or refer you outside their 'network'.

The whole system positively reeks.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#45

Post by seanwilson »

I thought this community would be more scientific...instead of anecdotes I'd rather see links to rigorous studies e.g. showing acupuncture or chiropractors work especially since these two forms of intervention have been subjected to decades of research already, have no plausible scientific basis and claim to treat many more things besides back pain. They should be held to the same standards as other medicine.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#46

Post by cmurf »

jackweirdy wrote: post #8
SilasX wrote: post #3

>Also consider this: In a poll at a 2009 conference in Bonita Springs, Florida, 99 out of 100 surgeons who were asked whether they’d elect to have lumbar fusion surgery if it were recommended to them said “absolutely not.” Wow. They charge $80k for a surgery they wouldn't even use themselves for the very condition they recommend it for? To reverse the famous quote: "you know what they call ineffective procedures that…

Similarly I fractured my foot out here in the US and a podiatrist told me it absolutely needed surgery. I flew home to have an orthopaedic surgeon look at it in the UK, they gave me one of those plastic ankle boots, and told me to slowly ease back into walking over the course of a month.

Doctors in the U.S. are paid per procedure. They are not salaried. And they aren't paid to make you better. They're paid to try (via the procedure). No refunds.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#48

Post by Godel_unicode »

cmurf wrote: post #43
Godel_unicode wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would anyone ever fix it in a for-profit system? For the same reason any other problem gets solved in a for-profit system; the best solver of problems will be the best getter of dollars. See for instance Apple, Honda, Nike, Harvard, etc.

Except that's not what's happening. There's a massive pile of patients who will try literally anything, they are a price and solution inelastic market, and like they say, there's a sucker born every minute. Except the sucker is a patient that isn't ever allowed, by this particular market, to get a refund for bad advice and procedures. You have to basically be injured by the doctor to have standing to sue. The idea of…

Counterpoint: hundreds of effective medical treatments for a variety of problems exist. Even in the joint pain market, compare today with 30 years ago. What would be career-ending injuries in the 80s are now resolved in time to return for next year. And these treatments are available to normal people too.

Edit: see the linked article on ACLs.

https://www.hss.edu/conditions_acl-injuries-then-and-now.asp

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#50

Post by tootie »

nas wrote: post #9

Here's some free advice. When your back bothers you, try some jogging. If you can't jog, walk. Taking it "easy" by laying around is not the cure. I'm pretty sure the vast number of back problems are caused by too much sitting and lying down.

Jogging or long walks is the one thing that causes back pain for me.
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