Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#71

Post by adameast9000 » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:41 PM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #22

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

> If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. That's precisely the issue. It can be illegal to use your market dominance in one area (search) to reinforce or create market dominance in other areas. Microsoft had the best operating system and a browser that they wanted people to use. People preferred Netscape, but Microsoft used its OS dominance to kill off Netscape. It is ok to be dominant in a prod…

I couldn't agree more. Look at internet speed tests. I used the ookla speed test because it was the first result until one day Google had created its own, built right into the search results page. I don't know which product is better, but it's easy to see ookla getting starved out by this regardless of product merit.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#72

Post by guessbest » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:46 PM UTC

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

For me Google is the best search on technical issues and research. When it comes down to touchy political and social issues, Bing and DuckDuckGo beat Google every time. In fact I don't even use Google to look up things I see in the news. It is always skewed. I completely avoid Google News.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#73

Post by bitmapbrother » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:47 PM UTC

It doesn't get much more despicable than Yelp. They've been threatening and extorting small businesses for years. There's an upcoming documentary film that exposes them for who they truly are.

>Billion Dollar Bully is an investigative documentary that examines allegations against Yelp regarding extortion, review manipulation, and review fabrication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2dkJctUDIs

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#74

Post by dep_b » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:48 PM UTC

kailuowang wrote: post #45

I found that Yelp's reviews very unreliable. My business owner friends told me that they are constantly harassed by yelp's sales representatives to buy the right to "clean up" their reviews. I don't see how yelp can continue trash their brand like this and blaming Google for their low performance.

Their complaint is still just.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#75

Post by falsedan » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #49

cft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like it was impossible to start a car company after say 1920 due to the established players, it has become impossible to start and run a large consumer internet company where the primary function is information retrieval/search like in Yelp. If Google maps did not exist (with "Local Guides" now), Yelp's market cap could have been 5x of what it is. They were lucky that they started in 2004 when Google bombing was…

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic? Several car companies operating today were founded after 1920.

Who owns them now?

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#76

Post by tyingq » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:50 PM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #59

simion314 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is that Google is not returning the best results but pushing it's own other services on top of the list even if in this case other review services are better.

It's displaying ads above the search results. That's what google does. It's their whole business. It's not pushing their own review services over yelp, it's advertising alongside search results.

That's likely the crux of the complaint. It's not alongside, it's on top of...and "over" Yelp.

And the query specifically included the word Yelp.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#77

Post by dep_b » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:52 PM UTC

The problem is that there's Google the search engine and Google the answer engine. They should split off the answer engine part into something completely new, based on Google search results but with the decoration they like to add and they think is the reason people love to use Google. Including integration into your mail, private thoughts, everything. Give that to the people who love it. Integrate it with Android and some kind of voice device in your living room. Experience this and that.

Google.com should go back to a search box, two buttons, three ads and ten results per page. No content mix, just pure results. Honest search, only external results. No abuse of monopoly.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#78

Post by falsedan » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 10:52 PM UTC

benchaney wrote: post #46

falsedan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get it: which search engines?

Bing, Yahoo, or Duck Duck Go.

Two of those are licensees of the other one. The power move was: Baidu/Yandex.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#79

Post by bdcravens » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 11:04 PM UTC

euske wrote: post #61

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

I find it amusing how their argument is similar to the MS' antitrust argument in 90s. Microsoft: "An OS should include everything. Third party apps aren't needed. It's only good for consumers." Google: "A search engine should include everything. Third party websites aren't needed. It's only good for consumers."

More interesting is the HN (and elsewhere) crowd that never relents on Google apologetics, yet presumably would be (and among those older, were) among the Microsoft critics.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#80

Post by bdcravens » Tue, Jul 04, 2017, 11:06 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #37

haltingthoughts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at what is best for consumers is missing the point. The point is that when companies use leverage in one market to help themselves or hurt competitors unfairly in other markets it stifles competition. It's hard to be a web browser company when it comes bundled with the OS. Do you really want a world where you choose Apple, Google, or Amazon once for everything everywhere and that is the only choice you get? O…

Isn't stifling competition only bad if it harms consumers? I don't understand how what's best for consumers isn't the point.

I think the position the powers that take is that competition is intrinsically consumer beneficial, with the inverse assumption that anything that harms competition harms consumers.